phate's Stance Thread - Chop and Flare

Discussion in 'Mazdaspeed 6 Suspension & Brakes' started by phate, Apr 12, 2016.

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  1. phate

    phate Motorhead Silver Member

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    I don't think much explanation is needed. I want more tire, fenders are in the way, so let's chop the shit out of them.


    Edit - Pictures DO work, but you have to right click and open in a new tab. Photobucket, in June-ish of 2017, has held everyone's pics for ransom after many years of providing a service for free. The current $400 charge is ludicrous, so just right click to check them out. They're all still there.


    All the poke, before:
    [​IMG]
    Yes, 275/40/17 Hoosiers

    To get an idea of what needs done, you can do some sweet MSPaint work. Take your springs out and move the wheel assembly to full bump.

    [​IMG]

    Any fender in the red area is going to get in the way. This is just a rough estimate, once you have the initial cut done you MUST turn the steering wheel back and forth to check clearance with steering angle.

    In order to transfer that circle onto the car, I used a 2' caliper as a compass and traced it onto a taped off fender:

    [​IMG]

    Check to make sure there's enough metal left over to attach the flare:
    [​IMG]

    Looks good, now time to chop. I got one of these SWEET body saws from Harbor Freight.
    [​IMG]
    It did really well. I used one blade on all 4 fenders, it went through like butter. It's easy to control and can cut decently tight radii.

    You can do multiple cuts to sneak up to your line. You might even be thinking to yourself, "well I might just cut a little bit..."
    [​IMG]
    But let's be serious, you're already CHOPPING THE FUCKING FENDERS. Get it all out of the way, no reason not to, right?
    [​IMG]

    Oh yeah, no interference anywhere. Remember to turn lock to lock at full bump to check clearance. There might be things in there that get in the way, like these silly little brackets waiting to slice your tire open:

    [​IMG]

    Once you get comfortable with the saw and the fact that you're resale value is now $0, you just go at it in one cut:
    [​IMG]
    Easy peasy. Better check that clearance on the rears:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    1/2" is plenty. Once you're happy with the cutting, don't forget to primer those bare metal edges! They'll start to rust immediately if they aren't coated.




    Flare time, boys and girls. I'm just assuming that the flares are going to get beat to hell at autocross, so I'm not spending a bunch of time making them all perfectly molded and beautiful. I'll leave that for the stance guys, I just wanna go fast.

    Since anyone that is interested in flaring is going to ask, I'll just give you the info about these flares:
    • They're from eBay, seller JDMFF
      • They're from RUSSIA, shipping took ~6 weeks for me, YMMV
    • They're ABS Plastic and universal, and you can mold them with heat
    • These are 2" flares on all 4 corners
    They're designed to be riveted on, and that's fine if you go that route. I wanted them to be removable, so I opted to use rivnuts. Just an FYI before you go out and buy these things, the tiny hardware (M3x0.5, here) SUCKS to work with. I can't tell you how many tiny nuts and bolts I stripped before I got them all in. They make me furious, and yes I was using grade 10.9 hardware.

    Quick Rivnut tutorial:
    [​IMG]
    You stick it in a hole and you crank the nut down, trying to compress the rivnut so that the fluted area compresses vertically and expands radially. The radial expansion is what holds it in the fender. Do everything in your power to keep the rivnut from rotating with the nut - hence the two washers. I even went as far as to use some lubricant on the washers to help the process. You don't want the rivnut to spin, you want to crush it.

    Stick it in the hole:
    [​IMG]
    It looks like this from the backside:
    [​IMG]
    This is what it looks like when everything goes correctly:
    [​IMG]
    I would say that happens ~1/3 of the time. The other 2/3 you strip a nut or bolt and end up saying nasty words about that SOB that created M3 rivnuts that don't crush before you strip grade 10.9 hardware...







    You might imagine that these flares fit poorly since they're (1) Universal, (2) JDM, and (3) from Russia. If you made that assumption, you're absolutely correct. These things are made for a flat, vertical surface to mount on. Like a box truck.

    [​IMG]

    So that leaves a gap pretty much everywhere. Anywho, starting out you need to eyeball the placement so that it looks like you kinda care about what this is going to look like:
    [​IMG]

    If it looks good to you in that spot, awesome, otherwise move it around some. Don't worry about how poorly it fits against the fender in 98% of the places it should be fitting. When I did this part, I did one of the center holes first, then worked my way out one by one. DO NOT drill every hole first then try to fasten it down. If you do this, you will be very upset to find that the changes you have to make in one section affect the entire flare.

    Before we drill anything, we need to get the rivet flats sitting flat against the fender. In order to do this, you need a heat gun (not a hair dryer, they probably aren't hot enough). You need to heat the rivet flat until it is pliable, then press against it with something small/round to force it to contour to the body. The plastic has to be HOT to do this, be careful. When you do it in a small area, it's going to look like shit, sort of like this:

    [​IMG]
    That's an after picture, of course. Once you get the rivet flat contoured to the body, it's time to drill a hole. I started with a 7/64" bit, which is the same diameter as the M3 shaft. I went through both flare and fender at the same time, making absolutely sure the bit didn't slip when it started on the fender. Once you have that pilot hole, remove the flare (that's the hole size in the flare you need if you're doing rivnuts) and drill the fender side hole to accommodate the rivnut body. Insert and secure the rivnut. Reattach the flare using the inserted hardware. THEN move on to your next holes after you get the flare re-positioned correctly.


    Don't worry too much, we'll fix all that shittiness later with lots of heat. Like I said above, I did one in the center, then worked my way out one at a time. Take your time, try not to char or ignite your flares. When you get all of the rivets/rivnuts in and secured, you'll have something that looks like this:
    [​IMG]
    You'll be ready to hit the streets in true ricer fashion.


    We need to fix that bulging in-between the rivets. Heat is the answer, and finding something that is roughly the contour you need is really helpful. Let's just watch a video, yeah?



    Sweet, now you've seen heat in action. Use heat to mold it the best you can. Try not to press into the ABS too hard when it's super hot, because it does squish a little bit. You might end up with a little bit of waviness and bulges around the rivet flanges, but that's hopefully a quick fix if you can remove them and flatten with a file or similar.
    [​IMG]

    And that's where I'm currently at. I might take them off this weekend to clean them up a little bit, but overall they're going to do just fine. Finished pictures coming this weekend.

    HHUUUUGGEEEEE thanks to @MS3brohanna for the help with these. I don't think I would tempt this one by myself, it's a lot of work and things going on all at once.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
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  2. Naoandlater

    Naoandlater Greenie Member

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    Love the functional rice!

    Anypictures of the car with the flares from far away?
     
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  3. NavysailorMS3

    NavysailorMS3 Greenie Member

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    Nice write up.
     
    NavysailorMS3, via a mobile device, Apr 12, 2016
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  4. phate

    phate Motorhead Silver Member

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    No, I was waiting to get some of the complete setup, wheels and all. Autocrossing on Sunday, so I'll post some after that.
     
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  5. Raider

    Raider Administraider Administrator Platinum Member

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    I was stunned at the title. But this thread is really well done. You can copy it to the suspension knowledgebase if you wish.
     
    Raider, via an iPhone, Apr 12, 2016
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  6. cshunter

    cshunter Greenie Member

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    Definitely in to see the final form of the Aids.

    Sent from my SP-G246279105748201337P
     
    cshunter, via a mobile device, Apr 12, 2016
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  7. Raider

    Raider Administraider Administrator Platinum Member

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    In a plot twist, @phate is installing 14" wide wheels and 225/40/17's.
     
    Raider, via an iPhone, Apr 12, 2016
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  8. darkcambria

    darkcambria Greenie Member

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    Very nice write up. Agreed on waiting to drill the rivets, I've had a few fellow racers who end up adjusting theirs up and down with ride height changes.
     
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  9. phate

    phate Motorhead Silver Member

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    Yeah, I'm a little concerned the ends of the flares are going to catch cones. I may have to trim them so they're just over 18" from the ground, but we'll see.
     
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  10. Maisonvi

    Maisonvi Platinum Member

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    "Once you get comfortable with the saw and the fact that you're resale value is now $0, you just go at it in one cut:"

    best part of the whole post. haha. Looking good man.
     
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  11. John

    John Full Fledged Member Greenie Member

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    I'm amazed the rivnuts only work 1/3 of the time. Did you consider trying class 12.9 hardware? Proof load goes from 830 to 970 MPa. Although I presume the rivnuts are rated to be used with class 10.9, and if so that's disappointing.

    Would you suggest to others to find a different rivnut? Perhaps a different style? Lots of them have relief slots so they have "petals" which would be a lot easier to mushroom out. Maybe those are mostly for wood but I'd think they'd work for both.
     
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  12. phate

    phate Motorhead Silver Member

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    I would suggest just going to a larger rivnut - M4 or maybe even an M5. They're going to be a little easier to find and it seems like no one has problems with larger rivnuts. There's plenty of room on the flare's rivet flat to hide the larger rivnut flange, so it wouldn't be a big deal at all. Just need to drill bigger holes. I found that high grade M3 hardware was tough to find locally, so the larger stuff might be easier on all fronts.
     
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  13. John

    John Full Fledged Member Greenie Member

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    Yah probably not a hardware store item and I might be surprised to find anything in class 12.9 except possibly a really good one. Looks like Fastenal stores in this area carry some M3 class 12.9 stuff, and failing that there's always McMaster.
     
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  14. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Motorhead Platinum Member

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    I still feel like @MS3brohanna hasn't completely covered the debt for the help in wrapping her car.
     
    Easter Bunny, via a HTC device, Apr 13, 2016
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  15. MS3brohanna

    MS3brohanna MSO Chicks Silver Member

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    I think you are seriously underestimating the amount of work we do to his car. We've probably put twice the hours into the 6 over the past 3 years, easy. Pretty much every weekend during the season, and most of the rest of them too...
    At least all this crap is turning nuts and bolts though. Applying vinyl wrap is not so straightforward.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
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  16. Vader

    Vader Greenie Member

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    You could also just buy a rivnut install tool... And avoid all the nonsense. Once the depth, and squeeze throw are set, stripping the insert is almost impossible.

    I get you prob didn't want to wait, or they weren't available locally.

    Link for reference:

     
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  17. phate

    phate Motorhead Silver Member

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    Rivnut tools that do M3 inserts seem tough to find, even on the interwebs. That one you linked starts at M5. Maybe just another reason to go with a larger rivnut.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
  18. Vader

    Vader Greenie Member

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    Yeah my link was for reference, to what I was talking about.

    M3 is sort of small, a slightly larger screw would almost certainly be better. Depending on goals.
     
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  19. MS3brohanna

    MS3brohanna MSO Chicks Silver Member

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    [​IMG]

    And I appreciate it... :D
     
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  20. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Motorhead Platinum Member

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    No complaining about working on the race car is allowed when you also drive the race car
     
    Easter Bunny, via a HTC device, Apr 14, 2016
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