BNR S3 + Methanol = ??? (Awesomeness, I hope!)

Discussion in 'Mazdaspeed 3/6 Fuel, NOS, Meth, & Water Injection' started by Redline, Feb 18, 2016.

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  1. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    07-11-2015
    Finally decided to take it to the next level. First we had a local breakout of BT installs across DFW. Now, it seems the next thing is for people to go WMI. In the pursuit of lower IDCs and more consistent year-round performance, I've decided to take the plunge. This arrived today:

    [​IMG]

    07-12-2015
    Looking at the quality of this MD piece, it really is beautifully machined. If I was forced to nitpick, the only thing that I could say is that the chamfering on the tapped holes isn't completely even or symmetrical. But I'm sure this will have zero impact on the performance:
    [​IMG]

    07-15-2015
    PTFE Paste arrived today. I'll remove the plugs and try it out. I'm thinking I'll have an easier time keeping it on the section of threading that I want.

    Ordered some wiring, LEDs, a switch, wire loom, and other miscellany today. I've also been considering where I may mount my instrumentation in the cabin. This is what I'm thinking of doing (please ignore the wrong cabin panels coloring, LOL):
    [​IMG]

    07-15-2015
    I was thinking that the green (system is flowing) light will be right next to my boost gauge in my defroster vent pod. I'll be much more likely to see it not flowing more quickly up there. The red light to let me know I'm low on fluid will also be close to where my red light showing that my Guardian Angel has tripped is located. I'm already used to seeing warnings in that vicinity. I also want the master switch to be stealthy, that's why I was thinking by the hood release.

    On another note, here's my proposed wiring schematic:
    [​IMG]

    07-27-2015
    Aaaaaaand the last of the supplies/parts I'll need to pre-wire have arrived:

    [​IMG]

    I'm all set to tear out the interior and pre-wire everything. Then, when the kit arrives all I'll need to do is mount the pump and tank and connect everything underhood.

    I'll do this in the next day or two, perhaps. In unrelated news, it may be 105 degrees tomorrow and I'll be working in an uncovered cement parking lot... argh. Gotta do it, for the love of Speed! LOL

    07-27-2015
    A-pillar LEDs mounted:

    [​IMG]

    Lots of pre-wiring prepped:

    [​IMG]

    07-28-2015
    Lower dash panel pulled (a pain) and switch mounted:

    [​IMG]

    07-29-2015
    TL;DR Ended up using the large grommet behind the glovebox for my wiring.

    Extended Version:
    With three 16-gauge wires and 1/4" loom, the steering column grommet wasn't having it. If I had a lift and a cordless drill I could've gotten up under there and made extra room in the foam for things to go through. Instead, I just pulled the glovebox and routed behind it.

    This means I'll have a longer path, more routing, and I'll need to splice/extend each of these three wires, but oh well...

    08-21-2015
    Well looky what arrived in the mail today (Cooling Mist Stage 1 Deluxe)... Sweet!
    [​IMG]

    09-05-2015
    Lots of work completed today, but only about 70% done. It took a ton of time to figure out where and how to mount my tank and pump. Serviceability and ease of refilling were key. I also wanted to make sure wires weren't rubbing, things weren't banging around, etc. The pump is so heavy that I make-shifted a restraining harness out of blue wire to prevent wheel well banging under acceleration.

    My sweet, 2-horn setup (sounds much, much better than stock):
    [​IMG]

    Moved to their new home:
    [​IMG]

    Preliminary mocking up:
    [​IMG]

    Great accessibility for refilling (with a funnel, of course LOL):
    [​IMG]

    Location and orientation I settled on for pump and reservoir:
    [​IMG]

    Pump and low fluid sensor wiring connected, but not yet made pretty:
    [​IMG]

    Boost switch tapped into manifold boost line and mounted:
    [​IMG]

    09-06-2015
    I wasn't too excited to try using the MD-supplied Allen key drive extended length bolts. There's barely any room in there, so using a 1/4-drive ratchet with attachments is MUCH easier. I was able to source replacements at Ace for $0.79 each.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    09-06-2015
    Implemented @redneck4Christ's advice. Good lookin' out, man!
    [​IMG]

    More or less final wiring configuration. It needs loom:
    [​IMG]

    Low fluid sensor works, LOL:
    [​IMG]

    Master switch works:
    [​IMG]

    Final pump/tank/anchoring configuration. I wish it were prettier, but it keeps everything immobilized and with clearance. Should be able to handle WOT and twisty corners easily, and that's what counts:
    [​IMG]

    Nozzle Placement:
    [​IMG]

    My makeshift reservoir cap anchor so I don't drop it into my bumper, LOL. I'll come up with something more elegant soon:[​IMG]

    Viewed from underneath with bumper in place. The ground isn't pulled taught on anything, so I'm okay with it there. I didn't want to disconnect/reconnect the WMI line right now because the GOOP on the tank fitting is curing:
    [​IMG]

    Plenty of room between my fog light HID ballast and my WMI pump:
    [​IMG]
    More to come... Logging next!

    09-07-2015
    Lowest BATs I've ever had on a 100-degree day! LOL
    [​IMG]

    09-07-2015
    Results in the form of logs from the same map. One with no meth. One with 50/50 mix.

    E28: 332/330, IAT 100/BAT 122 @ redline, ~96 IDC
    E28+50/50: 344/344, IAT 100/BAT 93 @ redline, ~89 IDC

    So, 50/50 netted about 12/14 @ the wheels, 29-degree lower BAT, and 7 lower IDC. Also, absolute zero KR after initial throttle tip-in.

    Bear in mind, my cat costed me ~15/15, so this 344/344 would probably be ~360/360 catless. (I took the cat off shortly after this, BTW). That's pretty awesome for a 100-ambient day. In essence, 50/50 WMI got me back what my cat lost me on a summer day.

    I'll probably experiment with 100% too to see how much more power, lower BAT, and lower IDC I get. I'll also update in the wintertime.
    [​IMG]

    09-10-2015
    I tried to take advantage of the cool in the morning to do some wire management. Unfortunately my loom is 1/4-inch, which isn't big enough to go around some of my butt connectors and wiring labels. I ordered some 1/2-inch and will finish things up when it arrives. Pics of progress:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    09-19-2015
    99% done. The final section needs some larger ID loom. Anybody have any black 1" ID laying around? Less than a foot should do it:

    [​IMG]

    09-24-2015
    Final section done. All told, I needed 1/4 ID, 1/2 ID, and some 3/4 ID for the last section. I'm no wiring pro, but I'm pleased with how it turned out:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    10-04-2015
    Tired of the cat killing power. It's gone. Various pull with various IATs and concentrations of methanol. Some of these are ~90% methanol with 80 IAT, others are ~50% methanol with 73 IAT. ALL are 93 octane:
    [​IMG]

    10-04-2015
    E28 + Methanol Check-Up:
    I definitely need a retune because my ECU gets all wacky when I'm past 2.50 load. But I was able to get 1 clean pull. Not bad numbers for 24.5psi! And that power peak is all the way at the top! These #s are from 75-degree IAT. I'm REALLY excited to see what the winter brings:
    [​IMG]

    10-13-2015
    Dat 100% methanol BATs lyfe, tho...
    [​IMG]

    10-19-2015
    I'm only on Rev A from Justin on the 100% methanol re-tune map. He's doing a GREAT job smoothing out my AFRs with my extra fueling. I'm only spraying about half of what Mikey is doing (CM7 vs CM14), but I put down ~373/377 or so this morning. 60-100 in the 4.6s again! Man, I'm glad summer is over. I'm excited to see where I end up on the 100% methanol update.

    I just got Rev B today. Gotta go do more logging...
    [​IMG]

    01-23-2016
    Cold-weather 93 + 100% methanol results: hit 100IDC (12/28/2015) with temps in the 30s. Put down 350/350 on 93 octane, LOL. I creep up to 24psi because I'm catless again, so that's a part of the extra power. Justin called the creep "manageable" and said not to worry about it. I'm tuned to regularly boost higher than that on my ethanol mix anyways.

    93 never felt so good! LOL

    01-29-2016
    I just ordered a CM10 nozzle, which should bring my flow up from my current ~630cc (CM7) to around 800cc or so. Simply put, I think a CM7 would be great for a K04, but a CM10 is really ideal for a CS Turbo/BNR S3 sized setup, especially if you're not running 100% methanol (and therefore need to flow more to keep your fueling amount higher to help with IDCs).

    Also, I've decided to order the AEM inline filter and install it on the low-pressure side (between tank and pump). It's 100% meth compatible, and because of its design and huge screen, it should have a long service interval:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2016
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  2. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    CM10 nozzle arrived yesterday. I'm eager to install it and the AEM filter, but the system isn't spraying. It's eating fuses like popcorn, so I think the pump went bad. I have a diagnostic email out to Cooling Mist, so we'll see what they say.
     
  3. Gandalf

    Gandalf Greenie Member

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    I'm becoming a Meth head next month. Maxed out injectors with my 3071 on 93 at 375whp in cool air. Have a DO kit coming with d12 nozzle. Built motor going to run 100% and see how far the snail will go. I've seen a low of 430 and a high of 460 with a 3071, so hoping for 450.
     
    Gandalf, via a mobile device, Feb 19, 2016
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  4. Shwa

    Shwa Greenie Member

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    Damn that's a clean setup. I'm looking to go 100% meth within a month or so, I have the kit need to get the BT and such in.

    Appreciate the detailed photos and ditching the DM Allen bolts was a great idea, I might do the same. only thing is the DM ones look treated but I doubt it's necessary.

    Also, I know it was a long time ago but the chamfer on the tapped holes looks like its done by hand. Some one needed some more practice with a burr knife for sure...
     
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  5. Quigs

    Quigs Greenie Member

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    Good stuff, thanks for sharing all that. We put the meth flow light and low level light in the same spot on the couple meth cars around here. Makes for a very clean install. The DM meth spacer makes a huge difference too. Much better than tapping a silicone hose or hard FMIC pipe.

    I'll most likely be going the WMI route after BNR upgrade. Looking forward to it :)
     
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  6. JT Ho

    JT Ho Greenie Member

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    Thats a really professional install. Color me impressed
     
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  7. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    Now that the bumper brackets are installed, I think I'm finally gonna turn my attention back to this and get that CM10 swapped in for my current CM7. Plus, I need to get the system spraying again (there's a short in my boost-switch activated line), so I gotta replace that, its respective taps, and make sure to insulate it super good to avoid recurrence. More to come...

    On another note, any methanol sprayers in here go from running w/o EGR to going back to EGR now that they have methanol valve wash? I run an OCC and an unplugged EGR to keep my valves clean, but since I'm spraying now, I figure I may re-enable the EGR. I'm thinking this will get me back a few MPGs. Anyone done this? Valves still stay clean???
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2016
  8. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    Update:
    Diagnosed the issue today. Turns out it's the pump; it's dead. I hotwired it directly to the battery with an appropriate inline fuse, and nada. Reached out to Cooling Mist to get a replacement pump under warranty. My issues started over 4 months ago. I'm just so busy that it took until now to finally diagnose it. Old pump is ready to ship back as soon as I get instructions from Cooling Mist.

    The green "system is flowing" light now works perfectly when I'm past the boost switch activation point - 15psi. And the system no longer eats fuses like popcorn, so it was definitely the pump causing the issue, drawing excess current, and popping fuses.

    Buuuuuuuttttt, halfway on the ride home and all of a sudden my system-is-flowing green LED doesn't illuminate! SMH!!! Now I have to diagnose this, which could be simply the LED going out (which would be simply a bad coincidence in timing), or could be a lot more involved regarding where it connects to its power source, which could involve removing lots of dash panels to diagnose. Argh!!!
     
  9. Gandalf

    Gandalf Greenie Member

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    Built motor, GT3071, 100% methanol, D14 nozzle, IDC 80%. This is 93 +100% on C map, still tuning, hoping for 450 whp. Car is down at the moment due to drivers side axle going out. It is the original axle with 133k on it so not surprised the newly added power did it in. Waiting for next map and the new axle to arrive. 2016 06-21 Meth Map C.jpg
    [doublepost=1466819021][/doublepost]Devils own controller with power indicator, pump on partial spray and full spray lights in one location. I don't have a float sensor yet but have a 2.25 gallon tank. I have a AEM inline filter I'll add as soon as I get the car back on the road and may order the tank float sensor soon.
    13419073_10206359412003997_729291584844337497_n.jpg
     
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  10. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    Oh, I forgot to mention to @Matt@DM and @Farhan@DM. Just some feedback on the TB spacer o-rings you provided. Part of what I did today was swap in a bigger methanol nozzle. In so doing, I had to remove/reinstall the TB spacer and I found that the o-ring you provided (which originally fit the machined groove very well) seemed to grow in circumference. So much so that I could barely get it to stay in the groove for the re-install. I used a lot of vaseline to get it to stick in there, but maybe you could start including o-rings that are a little on the small side so that if they expand too, they'll still work. I could barely get the o-ring in the groove; it was very tricky. If I had to quantify, I'd say my used o-ring was easily 5mm too long in circumference.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2016
  11. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    Update: seems like I have more issues than just the dead pump. I was taking the opportunity to clean up my wiring a little/trim runs, try to get better connections, etc., while I'm awaiting my pump's return. Unfortunately, the green LED now goes out after a few seconds of the switched circuit being energized. Fortunately the add-a-circuit main fuse still isn't blowing anymore. Immediately after I removed the pump, the green LED behaved as intended, so I'm not sure what went wrong since then. Also, the red LED now goes out when the switched circuit is energized, but it's not burning out; it's supposed to stay on continuously if I have low fluid and the master switch is on. Energizing the switched circuit should have zero bearing on this; it didn't before.

    Enter: wiring nightmare. You hear stories, and hope you never experience one. But it looks to me the best way to address everything is to replace all of the runs between the components. I'll take the opportunity to add some new color-coding to identify which components are connected to a particular wire anywhere along the run. I have wires labeled now, but it'll be much easier to know what is what anywhere along the line, especially if the labels aren't near where I'm looking. Accordingly, I'm going to implement this new wiring plan. The connections are identical (hey, it worked perfectly upon first installation). The color-keying is new:
    upload_2016-7-4_11-15-24.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2016
  12. blackms3_71

    blackms3_71 Greenie Member

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    I agree. At this point you need to redo the whole set up. Something is fucked up somewhere. Always sucks when shit like that happens
     
    blackms3_71, via a mobile device, Jul 4, 2016
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  13. rolliepollie07

    rolliepollie07 Greenie N00B Member

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    I tried to pair my GA v2 with my snow performance kit and I was having a lot of issues. How did you join your kit and GA? When I had mine paired i was restricted to only about 10~12 psi. I tried to adjust the dial and even contacted stratified no luck.


    Sent from my big fat booty
     
    rolliepollie07, via a mobile device, Jul 4, 2016
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  14. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    The systems don't interconnect on my setup. I just have a simple boost-switch system (stage 1). So my Guardian Angel just operates when it sees overboost. It isn't triggered by my methanol system because I have no methanol controller, just the boost switch.

    Sorry, man, wish I could help you. Is the voltage range the Snow kit puts out in the appropriate range to trip the GA? You say you've talked with Stratified; talked with Snow too?
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2016
  15. rolliepollie07

    rolliepollie07 Greenie N00B Member

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    Didn't go far with stratified don't know why didn't get a email back . But that's a good question a out the snow voltage I'll check into that. I haven't contacted snow yet. I have to admit I got a lotta frustrated with the failsafe install. And decided to come back to it later. I got a good offer on my kit so I may sell it and go with aem or somebody else. Also idk when you joined the bnrs3 meth club but welcome to the club.


    Sent from my big fat booty
     
    rolliepollie07, via a mobile device, Jul 6, 2016
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  16. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    Thanks, man. I got the BNR in January of 2014. Been lovin' it ever since :D
     
  17. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    Got this in the mail today. Little communication from Cooling Mist (no note, or anything), but it's clear by the fact that this pump was recently manufactured (date stamped on it) that my diagnosis was correct. Bad pump was my problem. Now, with this new pump in hand, I just need to wait for my final wiring order stuff to arrive so I can get this re-installed and apply my new and improved color-coded wiring design.
    upload_2016-7-7_16-23-38.png
    [doublepost=1467948080][/doublepost]So the final wiring stuff arrived today too. I've swapped out the first of my wires and am trying to psych myself up to take most of my front dash apart tomorrow (the lower half, anyways) in 100-degree heat, argh. Since I've done this before, it should go much faster this time, right? Here's hopin!
    upload_2016-7-7_22-20-8.png
    upload_2016-7-7_22-21-46.png

    Fully heatshrinked all of my connections. I anchored each LED very well in the A-pillar using hot glue (worked great last time). I also anchored all four wires in hot glue near the base so that if wires are tugged on during installation, it'll minimized wiring connections failing or LEDs popping out of place. Not that it'd matter, but all of these A-pillar wiring/electronics are essentially waterproof now due to all of the hot glue and heat shrink. Future-proofing against problems popping up FTW!
    upload_2016-7-7_22-31-1.png
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2016
  18. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    Argh, not again... aaaaaaand dash is apart for a complete rewiring...
    upload_2016-7-9_19-11-52.png

    Finished the whole interior wiring in a few hours. Thank goodness it went faster this time. Doing something the second time is much easier. New, color-coded wiring work underhood:
    upload_2016-7-9_19-14-31.png

    The short of it is that I basically re-wired the ENTIRE system, re-doing grounds and everything. I broke it up to the first session where I pulled the old, suspected broken pump (was verified broken), and swapped out my CM7 for a CM 10. The second session was wiring the whole interior and getting my main lines run to under the hood. Today, I finished by making all of my underhood connections and terminating fresh grounds (boost switch, solenoid, low fluid float, pump, low fluid red LED, and system flowing green LED). So, final results?
    upload_2016-7-9_19-18-46.png
    That methanol BATs lyfe, tho... :D. And everything is working exactly as it should: master switch, both LEDs, low fluid sensor, system starting spray at 15psi, etc. Sooooooooooo glad to finally be done with this ordeal. I'm so busy as a dad and full-time grad student that it's literally been almost a half year since my system started malfunctioning.

    Now, I just need to pull some new checkup logs. And wouldn't you know it, starting raining on the way home o.0. Oh well, that's enough for one day.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2016
  19. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    Update time - a VDyno and some logs:
    upload_2016-7-12_21-23-48.png
    Discussion:
    Definitely a success. IATs were 93 degrees (see logs). With similar IATs before methanol, I'd be lucky to hit 350whp. When cooler weather rolls around, I'll easily be back in the 380-390whp range. This is in keeping with my goals. I never wanted to make more ultimate power; I wanted less power drop during summer (got it), cleaner valves, more octane/cooling buffer, and IDC relief. I attained each and every one of these.

    Datalog 5: 93 IAT, 84 BAT @ redline, ~84 IDC, ~4.95 second 60-100 (in the Texas summer o.0)
    Datalog 6: 93 IAT, 84 BAT @ redline, ~84 IDC, ~4.95 second 60-100

    My IDCs have never been so low. You'll notice that my MAF is scaled down very low to account for the extra fuel. Even with my Genpu O/L fuel trims, Justin decided to go this route. It helps me stay clear of 2.50+ load too, which avoids other tuning issues (some of you other self-tuners know what I'm talkin' about). Unscaled, I'm actually flowing in the 370-380 grams/second range.

    My BATs pre-methanol were usually 20-25 degrees over IAT @ redline with my TR8 setup. With the CM7, this went down to maybe 8 degrees over IAT @ redline. Now, with the CM10, my BATS are ~10 UNDER IAT @ redline. And when I let off the throttle, they get downright icy. I saw them in the 40s today.

    I may have a vacuum leak. We'll see how my LTFTs settle out, but right now my idle breakpoint LTFT is really high. Probably just a loose coupler and/or TB spacer gasket.

    Definitely happy with my results. Even in the winter, I doubt I'll ever see anything close to 100 IDC again. I was seeing 105 IDC on the CM7 on the coldest of days. I don't think that'll be an issue any more. Even if it goes a little over 100, I'll have no blowout. On good plugs I'm usually fine until at least 108 or so IDC. And I could always copper rod mod my coilpacks.
     

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    Last edited: Jul 12, 2016
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  20. blackms3_71

    blackms3_71 Greenie Member

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    Very nice. I am glad you got it worked out. Car looks like it pulls good.
     
    blackms3_71, via a mobile device, Jul 12, 2016
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