DIY Port injection set up

Discussion in 'Mazdaspeed 3/6 Fuel, NOS, Meth, & Water Injection' started by Maisonvi, Jul 11, 2016.

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  1. GCPhotographers

    GCPhotographers Platinum Member

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    I am looking at the 300. I heard recently DW have many problems and we should be careful. I was told that there is another company out there with a better pump. Not too sure if anyone knows about this
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 7, 2017 ---
    Walbro is the name
     
    GCPhotographers, via a mobile device, Mar 7, 2017
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  2. Maisonvi

    Maisonvi Silver Member

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    Had a few people ask me about how I mounted the 450 in the tank basket. Right now I dont have it installed in the car yet (still running on the 300c while I figure out line routing) But here are a few pics of what I did. I added a fitting to the top of the basket, and made a ring that sits in the stock 3 armed cradle section. (I thought I had better pics of this but cant find them right now) Last is a pic of it all mounted in the basket with a couple submersible hoses.

    Cut off one of my spare connectors and soldered it to the walbro (with fuel rated heat shrink) and now it just plugs into the basket as normal. We will see if I need to do any sort of wiring up grade, but for now hopefully this works.

    I havent had a chance to get it all installed, my spare car is down (bad water pump) so I need to get that finished up and back on the road, and then I can finish messing around with the lines and basket. Ive taken on far too many side projects lately and this has been pushed back. That and its winter in MI, and my 215 snow tires dont need any more fuel/power.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 8, 2017 ---
    Found a pic of how its held in there. Stainless steel hose clamp.

    Also, want to mention, Ive been told I will have starvation issues. Right now I have a filter pick up sock on the bottom, but if I have to I have a plan to run a remote pick up as well. Not fully designed yet, but I dont see it being too hard and I think it would help.
     

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  3. AYOUSTIN

    AYOUSTIN Silver Member

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    Looks good Ken. I'm not sure how tight the seal on the bulkhead fittings are but I used these nylon washers on both sides. They seemed to crush a bit so I think they sealed it up pretty good.

    [​IMG]
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 8, 2017 ---
    DW stuffs tends to be hit or miss. That's usually the case with most fuel pumps though unless you buy the really high end stuff. Walbro has pretty good success rate but you're left with having to create your own mounting solution, pretty much the boat that Ken is in.
     
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  4. Maisonvi

    Maisonvi Silver Member

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    Good to know on the washers, if I have issues I will get some. Right now I need to revamp my plumbing as Will said it will no longer work, so Im switching things up to the return post rail vs pre. I think the system I had would work, but I really dont want to have to re-do it again later if it doesnt. just wan it right the first time.
     
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  5. AYOUSTIN

    AYOUSTIN Silver Member

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    IIRC Freek's silver car is setup with the regulator and return pre rail.
     
  6. Bigelow

    Bigelow Gold Member

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    So your going to run fpr post auxiliary rail now? Is it still going to a boost based frp? I think I'm going to go with the radium surge tank. Don't know if I'll run return or stay retunless. So please post up with your results when ever you do get some.
     
    Bigelow, via a Samsung mobile device, Mar 8, 2017
    #26
  7. Maisonvi

    Maisonvi Silver Member

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    Yeah I picked up a AEM FPR for super cheap, so I am adding it to the system. I really liked the idea of the returnless system Im running now, I wish I knew if it was the system thats the issue, or just that I got one of the shitty DW pumps. Now with the return system going in, I guess I will never know, but as soon as I have any kind of results (spring time) I will post up.
     
  8. xfeejayx

    xfeejayx Greenie Member

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    You pretty much have to do return with a surge tank. Otherwise you have the potential of an air/fuel mixture at some pressure. Air, fuel, pressure...effectively a bomb. Put a monster pump (like the 450) in the tank and use a block style regulator for the returnless system. Don't know what your goals are, but that should be sufficient for pretty much everyone.

    I'm confident your problem was pump related. Math, data, and even a real world example support that. Like you said, irrelevant now.

    Did some research on your regulator. You are correct; that AEM regulator can run before or after the rail, but needs a return. It still operates as an "open to relieve" style regulator, not a blocking style as I said earlier. Should work well for what you're thinking.

    If you go before the rail, fuel into one side, out to rail on the other, return out the bottom back to the tank.
    If running after the rail fuel from the rail goes into one side, out the bottom for the return. Plug the other side. I'd still recommend this.
     
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  9. Maisonvi

    Maisonvi Silver Member

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    This was the plan I have in place now. I found it from an older (apparently) SP36 document. Made sense to me at the time as a good way to do it.
    17197774_10109987860319674_1316973812_n.jpg

    This is the new plan: (Sorry for the shitty MS Paint drawing:
    Fuel Set up.jpg

    Seems like the second way is how most people run it. I was under the impression the first way would work as well, especially with me having small injectors for the PI system.
     
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  10. Jeff23spl

    Jeff23spl Silver Member

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    I'm evaluating to do it too, i will follow this thread carefully :)

    IMO, i think having the regulator as far as you can in the system is probably the best way to go. If the pump isn't keeping up, it doesn't matter where is the regulator. But if the pressure drop in the rail because of a restriction, the regulator installed at the end of the circuit will see the pressure differential and will regulate to keep more fuel. With the SP63 sheme, if you get a restriction after the regulator, the regulator won't see the final pressure under max flow and won't regulate for it.

    I'm a bit disapointed by your results with the DW pump. i was looking at it as an easy swap. Have you tested the pump itself out of the car against the flow curve ? (Can you put some kind of nozzle on it to generate pressure and measure flow by reading pumped volume under a specific amount of time ?) Have you checked voltage at the pump? If the pump use more amps, it may create a voltage drop affecting the pump performances? Can we run large wires from battery and a relay to get most of it ?

    Do we know the pressure limits to feed to the HPFP? can we affect it by increasing the pressure too much ? I would assume the higher is the primary pressure, the best it is but can we affect the high pressure regulation ?
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
  11. Maisonvi

    Maisonvi Silver Member

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    The goal is to pull the DW and send it off to them for testing. If they tell me its fine, then we have data, if they tell me its bad, I make them replace it and I sell someone a good one to try this system and see what happens.
     
  12. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    Sucks. I can't be doing stuff like that and having the downtime on my DD. It'll be nice one day to have a beater to rely on when T/S requires more downtime.
     
  13. CMajor

    CMajor Platinum Member

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    Any luck with getting this setup to work? I just started ordering stuff for my PI system and curious on if this is a route that I can take. I haven't done a ton of research into it yet but plan to in the next month or so while I piece my car back together.

    Aeromotive sells a fuel pump that is a direct fit and it's 325 lph. That answers your concern with an easy swap lol
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...lgGbN4wB31Tf6R4mq9khP1SfCM7Um6MuIkaAvSM8P8HAQ
     
  14. Maisonvi

    Maisonvi Silver Member

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    Working on it right now actually. If you check my build thread you can see the issue I ran into last night. Hopefully tomorrow it will be up and running

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
     
    Maisonvi, via a mobile device, Apr 1, 2017
    #34
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  15. CMajor

    CMajor Platinum Member

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    I read it and didn't put two and two together haha. I hope it's all good tomorrow too:D
     
  16. Maisonvi

    Maisonvi Silver Member

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    Got it all connected and started up. Luckily I was able to use all the lines and fittings I had already, so nothing really had to be modified. No leaks, and HPFP pressure seemed good, rail pressure was low, but I hadnt messed with the regulator at all. Taking the car off the stands tonight and I will get that dialed in. Im thinking 60psi for rail pressure, but I will need to figure out what the best setting for that is. I will update with more soon.
     
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  17. alexwlwsn

    alexwlwsn Silver Member

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    At idle I'm right around 38psi and it'll come up to 80psi at full boost. If I recall correctly you want a ~40psi difference between your boost pressure and fuel rail pressure.
     
  18. Maisonvi

    Maisonvi Silver Member

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    So maybe 40 at idle is correct since it's a boost referenced regulator

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
     
    Maisonvi, via a mobile device, Apr 3, 2017
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  19. alexwlwsn

    alexwlwsn Silver Member

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    So far as I am aware. My car is all tuned and whatnot and that's where mine sits. I think you'll just have to make sure now that it goes up 1:1 with boost and you should be good. Maybe hook a compressor up to it and give it air to make sure it's working properly?
     
  20. Jeff23spl

    Jeff23spl Silver Member

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    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 3, 2017 ---
    How good is the aeromotive pumps ?

    I found the curve
    For 60psi it is at 300 l/hr that i converted to 5000cc/min. Probably ok to add 4x 500cc at 80% IDC + 3000cc of the stock systeme.
    But at 80psi it gives only 235L/hr. 3920cc/m. I'm right to assume it is a bit small for 4 injectors ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2017
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