Help the Padawan!

Hello all. I’ve come here today in search of learning the ways of the Jedi, meaning I would like to start getting my feet wet in tuning.

Ideally, I’m trying to understand everything that goes into tuning. By everything, I mean the whole 9 yards(graphs, terms, what key things do what, what’s good limits or bad, etc.). I’m not looking to be professional, but I would like to understand as much as humanly possible, that way if I encounter an issue with the speed(or really any other project I’d have the ability to read data on), I can better communicate it with my tuner.

If anyone knows of any courses, or any notable places to learn, or YouTube, or wherever I can find knowledge, I’d appreciate it greatly. I’ve got a pretty good chunk of time on my hands for the moment, and I’d love to invest it into a hobby that keeps me happy.

Thank you for any replies, and I hope everyone has a great week!

 

Are you tuning with ATR?

 

Negative. I wish I could be, but at the time of trying to figure out AP tuning to double check a map I was sent for my map sensor values, I didn’t feel like paying the 200 or what have you for the certification they make you get to download the software.

Since that point I’ve debated swapping to Versatune, but have had concerns since I’m not very knowledgeable of personal tuning, hence my current outreach.

Another thing I’ve wondered is how certain softwares match up overall. I imagine the terminology tends to be the same, but the actual tools and graphs would be different.

It’s been a thought in the back of my mind to start learning this process for a bit, but it’s creeping up more since I have a Miata I want to run a ms3 on. And I figure if I can find an understanding in that, that it could benefit me if I ever decided to go the Versatune route.

Sorry for being so long winded!

 

I run MS3Pro on my NA chassis Miata so if you need help with that I can help a lot there

As for the ATR you need to either take their course/test to download your software or pay someone to tune it. There is no getting around that.

 

I’m definitely aiming for MS3 minimum of not pro for my na. I feel like it’s a decent way to get started understanding things, the problem is, I just don’t know where to start I’m trying to learn. I have an issue in wanting to know everything known to man in relation to tuning. Lol. I’m just not sure if there’s a course or something that can be found to teach everything.

As far as the speed, I’ve got a tuner I’m working with on it to get it up to snuff. I would just like to see if Versatune could lead to more benefits for the speed vs the Accessport. Not that there’s anything wrong with the AP, I just have a sour taste after they mandate a course to get the “free” version of the software. But that’s just personal opinion.

 

Versatune works well until you start to do PI and then it is kinda a bear. I switched from Versatune to AP and will not look back. AP is just easier to tune with and the logging is so much faster.

 

That’s fair. Not that intend to go PI anytime soon, but it is something I plan on doing at some point. So if AP is easier to work with, then I’ll give it a shot. Does anyone have any insight on the course they make you do prior to downloading the tuning software?

It seems credible, so that may be a good place to start also. Granted the money it shall cost makes my innards hurt, but if it’s worth it then I shall bite the bullet. xD

 

I got the hookup and got to take the course for free. I told them my tuning experience and how I wanted to switch from VT. You might be able to talk to customer service and see if they offer any discount.

 

Might be a good plan. They definitely have good customer service, so it might be possible. The only thing I could see them going for was if I bought my AP prior to the switch, but I got my AP in 2020, so I find that it might be slim chances. Not quite impossible, but at this point I think I’d be willing to pay full price.

Also, @L337TurboZ have you had any experience with ATR, if so is it pretty relative to the MS software, or are they vastly different?

And thanks to both of y’all for all the help. I imagine trying to learn tuning is a common subject around here, so I definitely appreciate the patience and assistance.

 

The reason for taking a course is to help absolve their liability in case you blow up your car using their product. If you take the test/course and pass then it shows you have knowledge of how an automobile ECU system works and how to tune values safely.

The test basically asks questions about ignition timing, short term and long term fuel trims, how the computer calculates air flow and fueling etc.

I personally dont like ATR compared to Tuner Studio which I use for the Miata. With TS I can live tune, it has a SD card in the ECU which starts data logs every time I turn the key on and drive. Very helpful in case you have a random issue compared to an AP where logging only takes place if you manually activate it.

With ATR you make your adjustments, then flash the new log onto an AP and then to your car. It's time consuming and if there was an option to run Megasquirt on a Speed 3 I would have gone that route but unfortunately Megasquirt doesnt have Direct Injection control due to the drivers having to be such high current compared to regular Port Injectors. If I went PI only I would run MS and not look back.

I have an Android head unit in the Miata connected to my MS3Pro via bluetooth. I run the Shadow Dash app on the head unit so I can literally display my TS gauges and stuff on my radio. You could even make a Raspberry Pi Dash setup and run TS on your instrument cluster for a cheap digital dash setup.

As for MS3 get the Pro plug n play version. Takes very little to setup, you can auto tune your fuel tables quickly and having all features and expansion available is nice if you decide to further upgrade later on. I can help you a bunch with Megasquirt if and when you get it.

I have also ran a Haltech on the Miata (basic Sprint 500 ecu) but changed to MS3 because MS has more features like A/C control, 2 step, Anti lag, Boost by gear.

AP isn't bad but you're limited by the factory ECU. There are many tables to take into account when making adjustments. It can be quite a learning curve trying to figure out how it all works. If you have a Tuner in mind go that route. Learn to tune on MS instead. I'm a lazy person who likes instant results and to see the changes I make take place immediately which is why I self tune my Miata but paid for Freektune to tune my speed.

I played around with ATR and was able to get it decent but just the time it takes to make logs, load them onto the laptop, read these stupid Excel sheet data logs, cross reference where they would be on the cells of my map, then make the change, reload the new tune file, write that to the car, then make more pulls and logs is time consuming and boring to me.

Using Megalog viewer I can see everything graphed out, watch the cursor on my map as to what is being referenced at that moment and make my adjustments much faster. There is also the ability to command output testing such as cooling fans, AC compressor, boost control solenoid, injectors etc that you dont have with an Accessport.

Sorry I sound biased but having spent most of my modifying and tuning with Standalone ECUs it is clear I have a preference.

 

That’s what I imagined the purpose of the course is. Although I have the mindset that it should only be suggested, rather than be mandatory. I understand the liability case, but I don’t believe they should take responsibility for what someone personally does to their ecu. But I also understand the world we live in. Lol. Common sense isn’t so common nowadays.

And that was probably gonna be the route. I like the idea of pnp vs trying to wire everything. However it would be nice to clean up all the wiring.

 

While is mostly is PNP you need to make sure to order the right unit for your harness and there will still be some wiring involved. You'll need to wire in a GM IAT sensor and set the values in the ECU for it. I ran my AEM wideband right to the MS3 in place of a factory sensor and set those values. You may have to run separate injector wires to run sequential injection depending on your year and model. If you have an NA miata you'll need to wire in a variable TPS sensor as the regular TPS is just an ON/OFF switch. The whole thing can be installed and running in about 2 hours.

 

Dig it. Thank you for all the information. I totally understand the preference as well, especially seeing your perspective with use on ATR vs TS.

Megasquirt will definitely be in the future for me. I currently have 2 NA Miatas, but I want to get one running right to sell. I ended up buying a second that was already stripped down with the na8 swap since it was a 91. The 90 I have is the one I plan on selling. It’s mostly stock aside from a leather seat swap and different head unit. I’d feel too bad tearing it down. Haha.

But the 91 is destined for being my lab rat. Plus I’ll need to run a standalone when I decide to test out trying to do a junkyard supercharger build. Plus I can get everything installed when I decide to refresh it and try to clean it up.

Overall staring at all the figures and graphs, it just seems daunting. Especially since I’m not extremely knowledgeable of what boundaries everything needs to stay in to operate accordingly. Gives me the anxieties! But I suppose the only way I’ll really learn it is just to dive in and then start picking apart everything when I’m there.