I Can Haz Evo???

Discussion in 'Cars' started by AYOUSTIN, May 31, 2017.

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  1. AYOUSTIN

    AYOUSTIN Silver Member

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    I'm pretty well done for now. Money is already stretched thin and with school starting again next week it just wouldn't be smart to embark on another rebuild endeavor. After talking with Farhan I'm pretty sure the oil pump lost pressure for some time during that run, it's the only way I could see 3 bearings getting wiped at once.

    With the crank being a paper weight and this much metal getting pushed through the engine it definitely needs to get pulled and everything flushed out. I don't have the time or space for that right now so I'm just going to tow the car up to school and let it sit in my garage until next year. I'm pretty bummed but shit happens.
     
    AYOUSTIN, via an iPhone, Aug 21, 2017
    #61
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  2. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Greenie Member

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    I just want to point out that you neglected the first mod any DSM owner should make.















    Truck and trailer since you will spend more time towing it than driving it.
     
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  3. AYOUSTIN

    AYOUSTIN Silver Member

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    Dropped the 4 cap. Bearing is spun. Crank is garbage without a grind, rod will need to get cut and honed. Pulled the valve cover to check the head and no debris made it up there so that's a plus. Going to pull the engine when I get up to school and fix what I can in the machine shop. Probably just going to buy a new crank as I'm not sure I want to run a ground crank. Also going to replace the oil pump and cooler. Flush everything out. By the time it's fixed it'll probably be winter. Don't expect updates for a while.


    So now that I know 4 is damaged this badly the question comes down to the root cause. Right now there are three/four possibilities I can think of but I have my doubts about each one:

    1- The rods weren't assembled correctly. I doubt this because I cleaned everything prior to assembly, both the bearing surface and crank were lubricated with assembly lube. Rod bolts were torqued using a stretch gauge and their torque was double checked.

    2- The rods were starved of oil going through a corner. I doubt this because the corners weren't very long and there wasn't any damage in the head which usually gets oil after the rods. Also there's no damage I can see to the mains, balance shaft or anywhere else that receives oil pressure.

    3- The oil pump failed. I doubt this because it was perfectly fine before and I never touched it or the front case. I think opening the pump up might tell me more hopefully.

    4- The rod bearings were defective/manufactured wrong. I doubt this because it's just very very unlikely. Unless I'm really just that unlucky.

    The one thing I'm most unsure of that would definitely help to find out is if all the bearings were going out simultaneously and 4 went first or if 4 was the only one going and the debris from it caused the damage to the rest.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
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  4. monkey.bones.007

    monkey.bones.007 Platinum Member

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    Did you replace the rear balance shaft belt? I know you mentioned something about it being dead and you were going without it. I've not touched a dsm in many years so I've no idea if that could cause issue. Although it's all crank related.

    crapatalk it sucks for free
     
    monkey.bones.007, via a mobile device, Aug 21, 2017
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  5. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Greenie Member

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    Assuming that the damage is mild enough that you would still be able to find bearings to make it work after the grind, i would not hesitate to run a ground crank.

    You could go crazy and offset grind it to increase the stroke
     
    Easter Bunny, via a HTC device, Aug 22, 2017
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  6. djohns

    djohns Silver Member

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    Orrrrr you can sell it to me for about tree fiddy and I can fix it up.
     
    djohns, via an iPhone, Aug 22, 2017
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  7. AYOUSTIN

    AYOUSTIN Silver Member

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    Never put a rear shaft belt on but this is unrelated to that. If it was vibrating enough to disrupt the oil film it would have been vibrating very violently. I'm leaning towards a starvation issue. Evos have issues with starving on right handers and there were two right sweepers on the course.


    There are undersized bearing options (.025mm .25mm .50mm). My concern is that after grinding, the hardened surface will be gone and it will need to get nitrided. At that point I feel it'd be more cost effective to just get an aftermarket crank.

    As for changing stroke there are plenty of stroker crank options but I already have my rods and pistons and I'm not going to be changing them anytime soon.
     
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  8. AYOUSTIN

    AYOUSTIN Silver Member

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    After looking at the main bearings they told the whole story. 4 and 5 are showing some copper and counting back to 1 they progressively look better so starvation is definitely the culprit. Also makes sense since the 4 rod is the one that spun.

    Damage to rod 4.

    [​IMG]

    Main 1 vs 5. You can see 1 looks fairly healthy, most of the top layer is still there. 5 has none of the top layer left and copper is showing.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Parts are on order, oil pump, seals, balance shaft stub, oil strainer, other little odds and ends to get the engine back together. Ended up buying a new rod, the damaged one would have taken too much time to fix. Crank is getting ground either tomorrow or Monday and then I'll get bearings for it.

    Block is washed out, flipped the balance shaft bearings to delete the balance shafts, going to wash the block again. Washed the oil filter housing a couple times and cleaned out a fair amount of steel and copper from it. Sending the pan to Buschur to get better baffling. Also bought a Kiggly HLA to lower oil pressure in the head and a Tomei crank scraper/baffle combo. The oil cooler was really beat up, dented and lots of bent fins, but I got a good deal on an AMS oil cooler kit that uses a Setrab core.

    Hoping to have everything back together in the next two weeks.
     
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  9. AYOUSTIN

    AYOUSTIN Silver Member

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    Replacement rod came in from Manley Friday and I got my AMS oil cooler yesterday morning and got it installed. I'm very happy with how well it fits and look forward to seeing how it handles hotter days.


    [​IMG]
     
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  10. AYOUSTIN

    AYOUSTIN Silver Member

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    Got the crank back yesterday. Looks brand new, did take a .020" grind to get it fully cleaned up, a .010" cut just barely wasn't enough. Mains got a good polishing as well.

    Ordering bearings soon. Hoping to have them by the end of the week so I can get the engine back together and in the car next week.

    [​IMG]

    Also got a bit bored yesterday so I made a new cam sensor cover. Going to test fit it when I get home and it's all good then going to cut one out on a router or mill.

    [​IMG]

    Edit: Fits pretty good. Time to move to metal.

    [​IMG]
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 12, 2017 ---
    Just found out there's a hill climb in Empire MI this Saturday. It's a very short hill climb, less than a mile long and it's only about two hours away from me. Pretty sad as it would've been a great event for me to cut my teeth and start to get into hill climbs :(
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
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  11. AYOUSTIN

    AYOUSTIN Silver Member

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    Printed a bracket to mount a catch can behind the driver's headlight. I'm happy with the fitment, working on toolpaths now to cut it out on a mill. Going to run a line from the balance shaft inspection hole and vta the can. I haven't seen any pcv related issues as is but more crankcase venting won't hurt anything.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Bearings and oil pump should be arriving tomorrow so I can get the engine assembled this weekend.
     
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  12. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Greenie Member

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    How thick of stock are you using? steel or aluminum? if it is aluminum in the same thickness as your prototype it may be too thin and fail from excessive flopping.
     
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  13. AYOUSTIN

    AYOUSTIN Silver Member

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    Still working that out. I've got an unlimited supply of 1/4" plate so going to give that a shot first. Using that stock makes the bracket about 3mm thick. It is going to be Al, the mill I'm using can't do steel. It very well may crack, if it does I'll get thicker stock and bump the thickness up to 5mm, which is the thickness of this printed part. Also I could get it printed in nylon which might be strong enough, but I'd rather use metal.

    Also, I could shorten the bracket and rotate the can but that would take more math and reworking everything. That's a last resort.
     
  14. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Greenie Member

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    Can you weld? If you put a piece perpendicular to the current piece running the whole length it would reduce the movement significantly.

    Just a personal preference. I like to brace everything
     
  15. AYOUSTIN

    AYOUSTIN Silver Member

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    Yes but I don't have a personal welder than can do aluminum.

    That same idea was proposed by a professor. If I used a thicker stock (~1") I could have the brace milled as a part of the bracket. The challenge would be getting the angle right as it wouldn't be perfectly perpendicular. Also I'm not sure how much that piece of stock would cost me.

    I could see about taking it into the welding department and having them brace it.
     
  16. Maisonvi

    Maisonvi Silver Member

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    1/4" alumimum would probably be just fine there as long as your hoses arent putting un-do stress on the
     
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  17. AYOUSTIN

    AYOUSTIN Silver Member

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    Well 1/4 includes the bosses to locate on the countersinks on the can so the bracket itself would only be like 3mm.
     
  18. Maisonvi

    Maisonvi Silver Member

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    Do you really need the bosses? Sure it's nice, but seems excessive. It's a catch can, not a precision machine

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
     
    Maisonvi, via a mobile device, Sep 21, 2017 at 12:01 PM
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  19. AYOUSTIN

    AYOUSTIN Silver Member

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    No they're not nevesssary at all. I threw them in because I'm working on getting our desktop mill at school up and running. These add a bit more complexity and give me a bit more experience doing toolpathing and the machine a better test.

    There's a million ways to skin this cat.
     
  20. Maisonvi

    Maisonvi Silver Member

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    Cut scrap aluminum for practice, make the part you need for yourself

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
     
    Maisonvi, via a mobile device, Sep 21, 2017 at 12:41 PM
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