"Silver Demon v2" build

Discussion in 'Mazdaspeed 3 Build Diaries' started by VTMongoose, Jul 30, 2017.

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  1. ThatRed68

    ThatRed68 Silver Member

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    Sorry for the off topic comment. did you take the first picture in your thread up at the eagles nest in NY?
     
  2. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Greenie Member

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    Shouldnt this also be v3?
     
    Easter Bunny, via a HTC device, Aug 12, 2017
    #22
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  3. VTMongoose

    VTMongoose John/MD1032 Platinum Member

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    Nope. TOTD.

    Yeah...technically. Geoff never got the Xona Rotor tune finished AFAIK. Least I have my tuning sorted even if it makes less power than the 6156 on a base map lol. Maybe v2.5? Actually maybe it should be 0.5 with this little baby turbo on it.

    I've been trying to chase down a clunk I've been getting in the car. It's had it since the day I bought the car as far as I can remember. Move the car forward violently (ie pop the clutch), clunk. Put it in reverse, pop the clutch, clunk. Step on the gas hard, clunk. Hit the brake hard, clunk. It's a forward-backwards issue. No idea what it is, but it's definitely something that is switching between two states (forwards and backwards).

    In pursuit of this issue, I removed the rear motor mount today and discovered something which did not fix the problem but I'm glad I fixed anyway:

    [​IMG]

    In the background, you can see that the Damond RMM bolt does not even come close to filling the ID of my 2007 speed's transmission block bushing. On my 2012, I also had a black/black Damond mount, identical to the one this car came with, hence I never actually bothered swapping "my" mount from my pu into this car, I simply left it as-is (and donated my old RMM to someone). I'm pretty damn observant about stuff like this, thus I can say with relative certainty that the ID of the trans block on my pu matched the OD of the Damond RMM bolt. Here I would say there was at least a solid 2 mm of slop with my 2007's trans block. Now, in the foreground, I have the powerflex "race" bushing replacement including its metal sleeve, which you will notice fits the Damond RMM bolt perfectly with no play at all. Procrastinating about installing this little kit on my old car paid off.

    http://powerflexusa.com/fordfocusmk...owerenginemountsmallBushing-pff19-1221-1.aspx

    The only challenge is removing the old trans block bushing, which is glued in. I opted to take a small awl and hammer it around the outside of the trans block insert to release it, then used a socket and vice to press it out. This worked perfectly and no glue was left behind.

    [​IMG]

    I then pressed the new parts in. This was very easy. I didn't even need to use their included lube.

    [​IMG]

    Boom. Upgraded trans block insert. This definitely added some vibes, but it's not too bad.

    [​IMG]

    After I put this in, I ended up having some significant misalignment between the RMM and the chassis (which was there since day 1, but ignored). This made installing the RMM hard to do and put the new powerflex bushings under a lot of compression. To alleviate this, I removed the battery box, loosened the trans mount bolts, then loosened the PMM to chassis bolts, then loosened the rear bolt of the RMM that goes into the subframe, then grabbed a crowbar, and, using the battery box mount/bracket that sits on top of the trans mount as leverage, applied force to the trans mount and moved the engine-trans combo towards the driver's side of the vehicle and retorqued all bolts. Now everything is in proper alignment.

    Of course even after all of this, and checking my OCC mounting, all subframe bolts, steering rack bolts, and a whole bunch of other shit, I still have the clunk. Honestly, I almost think it's just flex in the subframe itself where the RMM bolts to the subframe, or something along those lines. I checked the LCA bushings and rechecked all my suspension work. Everything looks kosher.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017
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  4. JohnnyTightlips

    JohnnyTightlips Gold Member

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    When re-aligning the mounts did you just support the engine by the oil pan? I had to really pull on mine to get the pmm aligned and wonder if it would be worth doing this as well. I also have the CPE stg 2 which would alleviate the issue you had above as it has both parts of the mount.
     
  5. VTMongoose

    VTMongoose John/MD1032 Platinum Member

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    No need, leave it dangling by the PMM and TMM. They are designed to handle the full weight of the assembly. Notice that I only loosened the other two mounts. I didn't remove them.
     
  6. ConeKiller

    ConeKiller Motorhead Greenie Member

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    @xfeejayx

    IMO- that clearance between the sleeve and the bolt shouldn't be an issue.
    The friction between the stock metal sleeve (the one that's too large for the bolt) and the DM RMM sleeves will keep things from moving around - the bolt isn't being loaded in sheer, it's only providing clamping force for the two sets of bushings. It should be fine, as is.
    Think of the square bolt holes in the TMM mount.
     
  7. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Greenie Member

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    With the amount of torque being put through the RMM, it would still move, not the end of the world but something i would want to address.
     
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  8. VTMongoose

    VTMongoose John/MD1032 Platinum Member

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    It may or may not be an actual issue, but what I didn't show in the post above was that the inner edge of one of the bushings in the 2007's RMM was pretty chewed up from what was obviously some kind of movement, misalignment, or bushing deflection that shouldn't have been there. Contrast that with my 2012, where the bushings were still in mint condition after well over 50k miles. The TMM has a lot more surface area in contact with the chassis to act as friction and has four bolts torqued to 40 ft-lbs. The RMM bushings are only torqued to 25 ft-lbs.
     
  9. ConeKiller

    ConeKiller Motorhead Greenie Member

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    Seems low to me.
    When loading two sleeves together like the rmm to bracket, I usually go ham, and get much torque as I can with a hand wrench.
    You won't hurt the bushings by putting additional stress on the sleeves.
     
    ConeKiller, via a Nexus device, Aug 14, 2017
    #29
  10. SharksInSpace

    SharksInSpace Planets and shit. Silver Member

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    edited for fuckery.
    ulMMngb.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017
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  11. Farhan@DM

    Farhan@DM Approved Vendor

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    Negative on sleeves crushing trans piece. Shoulder bolt limits that. @VTMongoose did the right thing by replacing trans block bushing.

    The nut we supply on the shoulder bolt is a nylon lock nut, and it isn't loaded in significant tension (all shear load). 25ft-lbs works fine. We only increased our recommendation to 60 in case the nut is getting reused for the 5th time.
     
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  12. ConeKiller

    ConeKiller Motorhead Greenie Member

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    welp, talking out of my ass, because I didn't realize that was a shoulder bolt fit to the ID of the sleeve.
     
  13. Farhan@DM

    Farhan@DM Approved Vendor

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    Had the pleasure of driving this car at EMWNM Autocross this weekend. It was the most fun I've had behind a wheel this year. Aside from some minor heat issues due to the insane ambient temps, car ran like a champ. Thanks for the ride @VTMongoose, and thanks for the company.
     
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  14. VTMongoose

    VTMongoose John/MD1032 Platinum Member

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    After I got back from midwest meet, I changed the oil and when I was looking at my DW's, I realized the 2-3/32nds I had before midwest meet were now gone, so I ordered some new rubber. In the meantime one of my roommates and I autocrossed the car since his C5 Z06 is down.



    As you can tell, I still need more seat time. My skills compared to last season are still really poor! Not looking far enough ahead, not judging slalom entry speeds correctly, not turning in early enough. Hopefully I can get another one in before the end of the season.

    Yesterday I noticed our "activities" seemed to have a detrimental effect on the tire. Luckily, I had already mounted my new Nexen Sur4 255/40R17's on my 17x9 RPF1's. At $118 a corner on closeout, I expect these to serve me well for the money.

    [​IMG]

    The "clunk" diaries continue... the clunking was getting worse, so I ended up pulling the RMM again. For sure my theory about the mount sliding around in the subframe causing the clunk was correct.

    [​IMG]

    What you see are threads cut into the RMM from it slamming repeatedly against the bolt. I'm impressed with these home depot fasteners and nuts because they seem to be holding up to the abuse! I reinstalled everything and torqued to 65 ft-lbs again because I'm going to Maine for a week. When I get back, I want to either drill and tap for a larger fastener, or insert some kind of sleeve into the Damond RMM to take up the slack.
     
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  15. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Greenie Member

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    If the threads in the frame are good i would not screw around with drilling it out and putting in a larger bolt, i would drill out the mount and put in a steel sleeve. The mount is aluminum so it should be relatively easy to drill, just make sure you use a drill press.
     
  16. VTMongoose

    VTMongoose John/MD1032 Platinum Member

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    I forgot to document this here: Currently the threads in the "frame" (really just a nut that's welded to the topside of the subframe) are gone. The original bolt is an M12x1.25. The subframe nut which was helicoiled by one of the previous owners stripped during one of the RMM reinstallations because I set my torque wrench incorrectly, and the helicoil insert popped out. Currently the mount is being held in by a cut-to-length Grade 10.8 M12x1.75 bolt and Grade 8.8 M12x1.75 nut that is positioned above the subframe's nut and shaved down slightly to fit between the front SF nut and the PS rack. So far it's been holding for something like 2800 miles. But of course the noise continues to irritate everyone that drives the car and get worse.
     
  17. ThatRed68

    ThatRed68 Silver Member

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    Is it possible to weld on the top nut or add some friction washers to the mating surfaces between the nut and bolt heads? IDK if they make the stupid ninja star looking ones that big. It sounds like an issue of not enough clamp load to avoid joint slip. It sounds like Mazda got away without a friction adder because they used a fixed nut.
     
  18. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Greenie Member

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    In that case drill it all out and go up a bolt size, just tap the subframe nut at the larger size
     
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