Voodoo`s build (and a hell of a baseline)

Discussion in 'Mazdaspeed 3 Build Diaries' started by VoodooJef, Jan 18, 2017.

Watchers:
9 users.
  1. PURPFOX

    PURPFOX Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Posts:
    271
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Houston
    Ratings:
    +115 / -0
    makes me think the s4 would be a great option for a daily speed on stock block, not as likely to over strain the bottom end . Just have to nip it on the big end.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. VoodooJef

    VoodooJef Silver Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2016
    Posts:
    119
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    DFW, Tx
    Ratings:
    +119 / -0
    Kinda why I picked it. A bit more HP potential than the S3 but still mild mannered enough for DD. I`ve now read several S4 build diaries that have been north of 400hp on stock engine with solid reliability.
     
  3. Redline

    Redline The Notorious One Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Posts:
    2,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Euless, TX
    Ratings:
    +1,029 / -55
    Agreed, a benefit the S4 has over the S3 for stock block is much less potential to get into dangerous torque too early in the powerband. S3 tunes have to be neutered a lot in this regard. S4, not so much - it's a much more natural fit, in terms of wtq considerations.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. VoodooJef

    VoodooJef Silver Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2016
    Posts:
    119
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    DFW, Tx
    Ratings:
    +119 / -0
    As the tune turns: I was advised by my tuner to start my methanol spray at 8-10psi and max by 15. As soon as the new controller arrives it`s full speed ahead.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Redline

    Redline The Notorious One Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Posts:
    2,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Euless, TX
    Ratings:
    +1,029 / -55
    Cool deal. That's almost exactly the 50/75 max psi route that most people go by. Any idea what boost level you'll land on?
     
  6. VoodooJef

    VoodooJef Silver Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2016
    Posts:
    119
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    DFW, Tx
    Ratings:
    +119 / -0
    We`ll see what it does at 23 and go from there. Hell, Edge got over 400 out of one at 17psi.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. VoodooJef

    VoodooJef Silver Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2016
    Posts:
    119
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    DFW, Tx
    Ratings:
    +119 / -0
    Methanol is flowing, and definitely doing it`s job. 79 degrees outside, I saw BATs as low as 34 degrees. Yes, you read it right. 34. With a top mount (a nice fat CP-e, but top mount none the less). IDC is generally 90 or below. Still spooling super slow, gotta see if we can adjust for that. I`ve seen no less than 8 dyno charts for the S4 and they`re all spooled up by about 4K, and I`m not hitting max boost until 5K or so. Granted max tq is hitting at about 4600rpm, so it`s not like it`s a detriment. I`d still like to bring the torque curve just a tad to the left and hit max at 4K or so.

    Still feels like I need another thousand RPM before redline on the top end. I keep hitting the rev limiter because it just never runs out of power and I shift late. I`m used to shifting when I feel it peak, and it just keeps pulling and pulling.

    Since I`m really only on the first revision after the base map I know there`s a LOT left on the table. I don`t take much stock in VDyno, but fwiw it has me at 358/377 right now, and there`s a LOT of timing left on the table. I have zero doubt this will hit 400 on a moderate tune. Nothing conservative, but nowhere near the ragged edge, either. Loose goal is 425/380, and tq is already there.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Redline

    Redline The Notorious One Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Posts:
    2,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Euless, TX
    Ratings:
    +1,029 / -55
    Yep, when you pull it into neutral after a WOT run spraying methanol, the MAP temp will plummet by 50 degrees or more as all that extra meth slowly evacuates the IM. I've seen temps in the 30s with 90-degree ambients outside. When you're at fully WOT @ redline, however, it'll only be ~10-20 degrees below ambient (mid-pull). Regardless, that's MUCH better than the typical 30-35 degrees BATs above IATs normally seen with TMICs. A delta of ~50 degrees is quite significant.

    Excited to see where you end up. Any logs to share?
     
  9. VoodooJef

    VoodooJef Silver Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2016
    Posts:
    119
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    DFW, Tx
    Ratings:
    +119 / -0
    The saga continues:

    Spool was excrutiatingly slow. Went back to the WG to dial in half the preload I pulled out to get the boost down in the first place. Spool is fantastic, but it`s back to 24psi in cooler weather. I have a replacement WG actuator coming.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. VoodooJef

    VoodooJef Silver Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2016
    Posts:
    119
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    DFW, Tx
    Ratings:
    +119 / -0
    In the spirit of this being a true "build" diary, I`ll disclose that I have purchased a buildable engine and will start on it in the next couple of weeks. Not going to go haywire, goals are still the same. I`ll do manley rods and either wiseco or CPe 10.5 pistons.I want to do 425-380 on the stock block, then see if I can hit 465 on TMIC on the built motor before being forced to jump to a big core FMIC for my end goal of 485 or so (I`ve seen a dyno sheet of just over 450 w/ a top mount. A unicorn build, perhaps, but I`m gonna try). If it does 483, great. I`ll be happy. If it does 497, yes, I`ll try to squeeze the extra 3 out of it to hit 500. Truth be told, I`d be perfectly content at the 465 mark but I know it`ll just make me want a few more, and the turbo is made for the upper 400`s.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Redline

    Redline The Notorious One Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Posts:
    2,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Euless, TX
    Ratings:
    +1,029 / -55
    Looked into SP63's custom made pistons for us? They're really nice too, and I think they can be had @ high CR. Going to stick with methanol for fueling?
     
  12. VoodooJef

    VoodooJef Silver Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2016
    Posts:
    119
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    DFW, Tx
    Ratings:
    +119 / -0
    I looked at SP63 pistons, haven`t ruled them out but they`re not really on the radar, either. They do a 10.6CR piston. I`ll stick with methanol as a supplemental fuel until I max out what the TMIC can make, wherever that lands me. I`ll ultimately go front mount with a PI manifold and cut back the methanol to only cooling duties.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Redline

    Redline The Notorious One Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Posts:
    2,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Euless, TX
    Ratings:
    +1,029 / -55
    Cool deal. Should be a fun/very reliable build at that power level. Things tend to last a lot longer @ ~500 than @ ~700+, just generally speaking. Even with aftermarket parts, it's just easier on the whole drivetrain, you know?

    I have similar power goals, but I'm going to go with 4032s, the EFR7163, and stick to methanol for aux fuel/cooling combo. David from Cooling Mist was telling me that atomization really starts suffering beyond about two CM12s (b/c of the whole pressure vs. flow relationship), so I'll cap at that level of injection and whatever power level it'll get me. Should be in the 475-480whp range or so.
     
  14. Redline

    Redline The Notorious One Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Posts:
    2,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Euless, TX
    Ratings:
    +1,029 / -55
    You piqued my interested when you talked about Edge's very high whp on 17psi several times in chat. I looked up the Edge blog about the S4 making 400whp on 17psi. Maybe I just had a derp moment... I was a little sad:
    http://blog.edgeautosport.com/the-biggest-little-turbo-bnr-s4

    I was thinking it's a unicorn turbo! Anyways, I know it'll serve you very well. I get numbers mixed too sometimes. I was like "argh!!!" Anyways, I'm super excited to see where you end up. Edge is in CO, and that 5500 ASL or so they have really makes it harder on the turbo, so it'll do better down here.
     
  15. VoodooJef

    VoodooJef Silver Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2016
    Posts:
    119
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    DFW, Tx
    Ratings:
    +119 / -0
    Yeah, I reread the article shortly afterward and realized the error. I even remember thinking "what the **** did they do to get 400+ out of a medium sized turbo at 17psi?" when I first read it.

    Either way, dyno sheets are starting to pop up here and there and the stock block numbers are exactly where I want to be. And now that I have an engine to build on the side it`s looking to be a good year for my vehicle :)
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 11, 2017 ---
    Alrighty, now that fuel and boost are under control, here are the results so far. Still a LOT of timing and boost left on the table, this is just the 2nd revision since introducing methanol, and there is a TON of fuel headroom so I definitely see the target numbers being easy to hit from here.
    dynoS4.jpg

    I`ll say these number are "close", and for reference ONLY.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Redline

    Redline The Notorious One Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Posts:
    2,429
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Euless, TX
    Ratings:
    +1,029 / -55
    Logs? (What can I say, I love data! :D)
     
  17. Chpspd

    Chpspd Silver Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2017
    Posts:
    95
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    DFW
    Ratings:
    +49 / -0
    What's your spool like? Your log is starting pretty late around 3600rpm. Are you going wot sooner than that?

    Sent from my SM-G360T using Tapatalk
     
    Chpspd, via a mobile device, Apr 12, 2017
    #77
  18. VoodooJef

    VoodooJef Silver Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2016
    Posts:
    119
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    DFW, Tx
    Ratings:
    +119 / -0
    That particular log was kind of spontaneous. I saw an opportunity getting on the freeway and just hit the button LOL.

    Spool is good now that the wastegate is sorted out. In 3rd I`m usually at 20psi by 35-3600 or so, in 4th it hits 20psi at about 3800 if I punch it at 3K. I hit max TQ before I hit max boost, too, so it`s not even noticeable. As the tune comes along I grow more and more fond of this turbo. It`ll still try and tear chunks out of the asphalt if I just punch it in 2nd but with a more crafted and deliberate application of throttle it just digs and and goes.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 12, 2017 ---
    I could probably manipulate the numbers to look higher if I were to shift into 4th already boosted in 3rd as well. It comes on WAY stronger if I do.
     
  19. mangosmoothie

    mangosmoothie Silver Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2016
    Posts:
    131
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    STL
    Ratings:
    +98 / -1
    this car gon be nuts
     
  20. VoodooJef

    VoodooJef Silver Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2016
    Posts:
    119
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    DFW, Tx
    Ratings:
    +119 / -0
    not much to update. Got the builder engine torn apart and figured out what it`ll need, the build itself is now underway. Doing new oil pump, complete VVT assembly, I beam rods and 10.5:1 manley pistons (and of course all new bearings and machine work). Also doing a clutchmasters FX400 while we`re at it. With this solid of a lower end I`ll be able to push the S4v2 to its limits. Part of the plan is to genuinely determine what a TMIC can support. Once we hit it`s limits I`ll jump up to a TR10 and see where it goes. I don`t know if it`ll see 500 or not, and honestly I`m not even going for it. I`m going for whatever it`ll do.
     
    • Like Like x 2
Loading...

Share This Page

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)