FMIC; worth it?

So I'm currently running with a Cp-e TMIC and not having any noticeable problems with BATs. To be fair I'm not really looking at my logs after events, but I never have power issues during sessions and I haven't seen any knock.
I've been offered a Cobb FMIC from a buddy who's stocking out for $500. Would I see any drop in BATs compared to an upgraded TMIC, especially a drop that would be worth the $500? Or would that money be better spent elsewhere on things like brakes, suspension, tires, instruction, etc.

 

I would spend the $ else where since you have a good tmic. @dale_gribble did a comparison on the other forum. What I took away was a good tmic (CPE or ETS) was more effective than an fmic smaller than a tr8 on a K04. You're going to need a fairly large core for this to be worth while. The FMIC didn't heat soak quite as easily, but unless the core was around the size of a TR8 it wouldn't keep bats as low as a good timc. And if you have a pu, the hood scoop helps a good deal.

Who are you tuned with? I would definitely speak with them as well and see what they say, but if mods in your sig are accurate I would say it is definitely not worth the $500. You could get a pretty good meth setup for $500, and that would make an exponential difference over a fmic in bats and power. You could probably find a gently used BNR or CS turbo as well for around $500, which again would make a far more substantial difference in power than anything else you're going to bolt on.

 

Thanks for the validation. Every time I think about a FMIC I pretty much read into it and see there's not much difference for what I'm currently doing. But then 6 months goes by, something intriguing pops up, and I start the cycle all over again. And every time I think of some new angle that might justify it. Like an august track day when it's 95F or some shit.

This cash goes back into the racing fund to be used for pads and bigger tires for next season.

And is there a topic Dale hasn't done a full-ass study into?!

 

I thought Dale's, could have been someone else, thread also talked about some issues that were experienced with coolant temp due to an installed FMIC under sustained heavy track use.

My memory is fuzzy on the subject but I know it's a common complaint with the WRX guys too. I picked up the TMIC because my goals revolved around a fun street build with an occasional track day.

 

Stock turbo and tracking your car? If so, save your money and put it to work elsewhere. I mean.. unless you live in WOT-pull-only-land.

 

I really don't want to take sides here but I'll throw in my .02. I had a CPe top mount on my genpu and built my own front mount with a tr6 core and I have noticed that boost temps are lower cruising, heat soak wise, and during WOT, especially in the summer time.

 

Yep, that's the more common experience by far on MS3s, and TR6s are known not to do quite as well as TR8s, like on my setup.

 

I know, I wanted a tr8 but was too paranoid to mess with the stock crash bar just in case of an accident I didn't want insurance to deny a claim.

 

My custom FMIC (start here and read the next several pages) dropped my BATs at the track by about 60-70 degrees, data here.

 

Facts:
1. Depending on the configuration, a TMIC can outflow a FMIC; even with the increase in BATs, superior flow will almost always net more power. This was proven by Dale on the other site and is trustworthy data. I know this isn't apples to apples, but check out aftermarket STI TMICs (specifically row count vs flow area) and know that they are flirting with 9 second passes on those things.

2. Running a FMIC will almost always result in higher coolant temps in hotter climates. This can be almost completely negated with ducting for those that race, and is something that I (even though I won't be going TMIC) will be implementing in my build.

3. For any car at or south of 400 to the wheels (any size turbo), TMIC + meth is a valid replacement for FMIC if you don't want to run one for whatever reason.

 

Fuck a top mount, 3 owners are lucky they've got the space for an under route kit. Cleans up the engine bay and uses minimal couplers.

 

True, but pu owners are not lucky since we can't fit a tr8 without modifying/or replacing our stock crash bar. So the real winner here is the Juan.

 

juan is always the real winner.

 

Thread cleaned. Sorry OP.

 

Damn you Juan!

 

Indeed. I can type it all out again in a new thread, if necessary.

OP: my best advice to you - talk to people who've known, wrenched on, especially have tuned, and done dozens of mods on these cars for years. Not only have we read the threads and studied the theory for years, but we've actually done it. You'll see that many others are saying the same thing: FMIC over TMIC. But if your goal is as cool BATs as possible with a TMIC, go methanol, not FMIC. It will completely address your application and driving habits and give you better results than even FMIC, at the cost of an additional tank and monitoring flow closely, especially if you're using it for knock protection. And for the record, with a Pu and my custom setup/TR8, I have ZERO increased coolant temps. Enki is completely wrong, at least regarding my Genpu.

 

Wow, that got UGLY! Jesus guys, y'all need to bring it down a few notches.
Irregardless, I passed on the FMIC. $500 is more than I feel like spending right now (aka, I have other things I want to ask for money for) and it wasn't obviously clear if it would be the best bang for the money.
Not to fan the flames, but I'm only interested in a very specific application; track days. I'm not really concerned if it helps BATs in traffic, during WOT pulls on the highway, etc. It's a different conversation if this was still my daily and I was considering summertime traffic jams. I asked here since I don't personally know anyone else that's tracking a MS3 and wanted to hit a large audience. And as I continuously learn, there are "fun" issues that only show up after 15+ minutes of driving the car at the limit.
So I'll go back to digging and see who's done a tracked comparison of TMIC vs FMIC. Thanks for the input everyone, regardless of how nasty that got.

 

Yeah, sorry about that, bud. I know better than that. Besides the illogical (MS6 isn't an MS3, period) conclusions being reported absent any personal, direct evidence from mango, I let some aggravating stuff spill over into your thread. I know better than that, and I apologize.

If you want safety on trackdays, or as cool BATs as possible with your TMIC, just get a stage 1 methanol system. It will totally suit your needs, be a simple/elegant solution that's inexpensive, and the only inconvenience is having an extra tank to fill.

I don't see what year your Speed is, but I'll say this: if you have a Genwon (2007-2009), you'll likely need tuned for the extra fueling of the methanol; much more likely if you run 100% instead of 50/50. Genpus (2010-2013), alternatively, have open-loop fuel trims that are capable of automatically adjusting your fueling and AFRs on-the-fly to keep them stable within a +/-10% range. This is one of their refinements/advantages. This means that if you have a solid MAF curve to begin with, you can run up to a CM7 (or equivalent) on 100% with no AFR issues or need for additional tuning, most likely. But always pull logs to check and ensure you're good rather than assuming so.

Cheers.

 

Our founding fathers all used TMIC's.

Use a top mount if you love Freedom.

 

Most of DFW did too. Then pretty much all of us went FMIC, LOL.