Problems with rear endlinks, again?

TL;DR Why do high-end, adjustable, professionally installed RSB endlinks keep going out on my 65k miles Speed 3???

I've been having ongoing issues with my rear stabilizer endlinks after installing the JBR 125 Tru-Torsion RSB, and I'm not quite sure what to do.

First, the stock ones went out. No biggie, this is pretty common. So I went to some brand-new Moog upgraded ones with the zerks (the ones JBR sells, though I got mine elsewhere before he offered them). Then one of those went bad after ~10k miles. No biggie, got warranty replacements and decided to upgrade so I don't have more issues.

I went with the Whiteline adjustable ones. They cost more than double what I paid for the Moogs, and are known to have a great rep. These were installed just a few thousand miles ago, and I'm hearing the beginning of clunking again!! SMH

Both times this happened, I went to a shop for the install that does a TON of racing suspension work, and is frequently at tracks during the weekends to do pit support. They know suspension stuff like the back of their hand. And they zero'd out the pre-load on my new Whitelines.

So why then do I keep having issues? I'm beginning to suspect either the bar itself, or the brackets. I'm still on the stock (i.e., non-billet) sway brackets, so those are the only things I can think of that would keep causing issues. The bar was installed perfectly centered, so I know the loads each enlink sees are even.

Help! I'm tired of buying new endlines. I even upgraded to expensive, high-end, adjustable ones with a great rep (the Whitelines) and am still having problems. I'm about at my wits end. What can I do to get this permanently fixed? @JBR

 

Sometimes, it's a poor OEM design.
Leveraging a spherical bearing against it's cage is usually not a good idea.

IMO, you might transition to some awr style rear endlinks.

Also, make sure that there isn't something else down there clunking.

 

Whitelines are supposed to be top-notch, though. I did my homework before buying. And right after install I had complete silence back there, so they fixed the problem at first, anyways. I do have some things in the trunk that I'll remove just to be doubly sure in my diagnosis.

 

It's not necessarily about quality, it's about design.
You can throw good materials at a bad design, it doesn't make it right.

 

I hear ya. But they're a lot better than the Moogs, and for them to last less time (only maybe 1,000 miles) just doesn't compute to me, you know? That's why I'm thinking maybe it's a swaybar centering issue, or maybe swaybar brackets issue?

I may need to get a refund from Edge on the Whitelines and just go AWR if I can't figure something else out. I have a thread tagging JBR too for the purpose of seeing if they have had any experience of this happening because of swaybar or swaybar bracket issues.

 

Yup.

So, let's define failure of endlinks
1) Catastrophic failure - They break
2) Excessive tolerances - They clunk

The problem with the clunking is that it come from anywhere in the rear.
I would look at the rest of the rear sways system too, including the bushings and brackets to make sure there isn't something else wrong there, too (but you knew that).

IMO, to compare the lifecycle of two setups that both suck... well, they both suck.
Unfortunately, the AWR type setup uses regular sphericals, I believe, non-teflon lined. So they probably clunk a little under regular use anyways.

I don't know what to tell you man, except that there's a reason why the FoST and next gen 3 use a different rear enlink design.

 

And I guess the ST's and new 3's endlinks don't work for us?

 

Not anymore than plastic surgery worked for michael jackson.

The FoST rear bar setup has it's own problems.

The new 3 is more ingenius, but the whole subframe is different.

Granted, if a vendor wanted to produce something, I'm sure they could make it work, but I don't know that the dividends are there given that a new set of lifetime warranty endlinks will set you back $50.

 

I switched over to MOOG and awww.....that's even louder than OEM. Yeah, no more clunking noise from typical faulty end-link but now it had loud metal knocking sound everytime the car went thru bad road. I am having Corksport RSB.

 

I've never had an issue with my moogs since I've switched. Over 10k on them now. *knocks on wood*

 

I really believe the Whitelines are superior because they're able to be adjusted to zero-out any preload. I removed the stuff from my trunk, and I think I heard it a little more. I'm just going to drive on it for a while to be sure. If so, back to the racing shop. I think that mounting all of the studs/nuts with blue locktite would fix any potential issues. In my estimation, the Whitelines are just as strong as the Moogs, if not more so (better be, for more than 2x the price! LOL)

But the fact that it took multiple thousands of mile for Moogs to make noise and only maybe 1k miles for the Whitelines has me concerned. I'm hoping if an issue does exist, it's just a loosened nut.

 

I simply use OEMs, and I figure that I'll be replacing them periodically (I'm on my 3rd set).

Nothing lasts forever.

 

Here's the response I got from JBR:
"This very issue pops up once in a while. The MOOG's are your best bet, why you had one fail is odd. We've never had one go bad and we track our cars a lot. The aftermarket adjustable ones are really no good. The components are simply not up to the task of a stiff sway bar. Having adjustable links on the rear bar of this car really serves no practice purpose either.

It's also highly unlikely the brackets or the bar are making the noise either. Bars don't make noise and if the bushings are good then there's no issues there. It's the links 99% of the time. There is the remote possibility there's some other suspension component making the noise like a shock."

I was honestly a little surprised that they recommended Moogs over my Whitelines. I distinctly noticed that my Moogs weren't symmetrical with each other. One looked like it angled more than the other in the region that bolts to the hole in the bar itself. The fact that Whitelines can be adjusted to zero-out pre-load seemed like they'd be superior in that regard. And based on the cost, I thought the materials/quality of construction would be superior too.

I've since emptied out my trunk, and it seems like I'm not getting noises any more. But I'm going to drive like this for a while to get a solid trend, then go from there. I can get refunded for the Whitelines from Edge if I want, and I have a brand-new set of Moog replacements (because warranty). Time will tell. It also may be worth noting that I'm only using the middle setting on my 125 Tru-Torsion bar, so it's not like the links are seeing maximum load.

 

Adjustable links absolutely serve a practical purpose if you're corner balancing the car and want to zero bar pre-load. To say otherwise is to be mistaken.

 

True but, there's next to no one corner balancing this car. Addressing this customers problem, the comment was accurate. He zero'd pre-load only to see if the noise would go away, not because he was corner balancing the car.

 

Just to be clear, I just wanted to share my experiences for the purposes of adding to the knowledge base of the community. Additionally, though I'm not corner balancing, I am lowered. I'm no suspension pro, but the fact that I'm lowered seemed like it could have a bearing on the adjustment potential being advantageous, but I could be totally wrong.

I'm very thankful for @JBR 's response and guidance in helping me troubleshoot the problem. What I'm thinking the culprit is now (since I've emptied the trunk and thereby isolated the potential noise) is that one of the mounting studs/nuts loosened up a tad on the lower control arm. I'll likely take it back to the shop, have them put eyes on it, and potentially apply some loctite. To me, there's no reason why Whitelines would start failing at only 1k miles when the Moogs went 10k before doing so. But I'm definitely open to being wrong on that front too, LOL

 

i know about your apt situation and what not, but this is why everyone says to do your work yourself.

did the sounds go away when they installed the endlinks? did they do a complimentary tightening of the sway bar bushings? my car made all kinds of noises, but i don't remember anything from my moog endlinks...but i had a different sway bar.

 

First, I hassled with my stock endlinks maybe 4 or 5 times. Tightening. Re-tightening. Applying loctite. Etc. I finally came to the conclusion that the stock endlinks were toast.

Then, I went to Texas Track Works because they eat/sleep/breathe suspension, and it was founded by TCU grads (like me!), so I wanted to support them. Plus, it's such a quick job that the labor wasn't an issue. An added benefit is that if pros do the job, it's on them to troubleshoot when issues arise. I definitely wanted that since I had already spent so much time on them myself.

Things were perfect.... for about 10k miles. But then, the clunking started on the driver's side Moog. Took to TTW, and sure enough, when pressing/pulling up and down on the swaybar/endlink assembly, you could easily hear a characteristic clunking. Then endlink was bad. No issue on the other one. So I'm like, screw it, time to go high-end. Did homework and went with the Whitelines. I liked that they were adjustable because the Moogs never appeared to the naked eye like they were symmetrically oriented. I thought maybe the bar wasn't centered right, but it was. So I figured the preload adjustment would address any asymmetry. And they checked all of the other rear suspension bolts and RSB brackets too, just to be sure.

As it stands now, I barely get any clunking at all. It's very random/sporadic. Initially post-Whiteline install, I heard absolutely none. That's how it started with the Moogs too. I have a full-refund three year warranty on the Whitelines through Edge, so I'm not worried about it. I'm just trying to drive it for a while to see if it worsens. If it does, I'll take it back, ask their opinion, and see if remounting the studs/nuts with a heavy dose of loctite should address it. We shall see.

But in the end, if you mod cars, they're gonna make lots of extra noises, especially regarding suspension and engine mounts. As long as everything is properly tightened and the part isn't starting to fail, it'll be cool. I just hope that no clunking is a part of that, LOL...

Wow, what a book chapter, haha.

 

Are you absolutely certain that the bar isn't making any contact with the subframe?? Things are pretty tight fitment-wise with the JBR bar...

 

I really don't think so since there have been long periods where I had zero clunking issues, but good looking out. I'll try to get down there and see if there's evidence of interference issues, P/C'ing chipping off the RSB, denting of the bar or marking of the LCA, etc.