Tired 2000 Protege lx getting Speed3 swap

Discussion in 'Mazdaspeed 3 General Discussion' started by mazdas4me, Nov 6, 2019.

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  1. mazdas4me

    mazdas4me Silver Member

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    I haven't been on in awhile, but I have another thread where I was going to do the same swap to a standard Mazda3 Hatch. Plans have changed. I got my Son's first car back recently. For those who don't remember my other build thread I had started is called "2005 Mazda 3 Hatchback gets DISI" I was going to do this to my Son's Mazda 3 Hatch, but recently, I acquired his first car back. I already have a 2007 Speed3 GT, so I really don't need another Speed3. But it was my Son's so I will still keep the 3 Hatch body for future project, or incase my Speed gets totaled I will have a complete straight body to swap everything over to. If you want more info, just find my other thread and check it out. But, that thread is on hold unless this swap WILL NOT work.

    I have a complete running 2009 Speed3 Sport totaled due to body damage. I bought it back from insurance. It runs/drives like it did before accident. Steering wheel isn't even off center. I got my Son's first car back. He died back in July 2015 at 24 years old. So, I'm happy I have all 3 of his cars now. His first car was a 2000 Mazda Protege lx 1.6L. 2nd car was a 1970 Datsun 510. His 3rd car was the 2005 Mazda 3 Hatch that I originally was going to do the swap on. I ended up with Thyroid Cancer, so I have been dealing with that so nothing has gotten done.

    I am now ready to strip the Protege down, and start building a full Mazdaspeed 3 swapped Protege. I have been crawling over, under, measuring everything. I am surprised the engine compartment is same size as Speed. Wheelbase is 1.1" shorter on the Protege, but I could easily mount subframe back an inch to make it the same length as Speed. The rear subframe looks to be no problem to mount to frame rail. Will need to mount the trailing arm, but Protege uses one also. Almost mounts in same location so it won't be that hard to fab up a trailing arm mounting location. Rear of front subframe mounts to the original Protege subframe location. Front mounts 3" more forward, but is easily doable. The Speed dash will physically fit into Protege. Protege is actually about 1/2" wider inside than Speed in most areas. I will swap complete dash, steering colum, pedals, console, shifter, etc... I will use Speed seats, and mount the rear side curtain air bag modules over rear doors like in Speed. They almost bolt right up. Basically I will be using all external lighting, trunk light, dome light, power windows/locks, wiper motor/linkage, carpet, and headliner. All else will be removed.


    I will take some pics tomorrow.

    Any thoughts, questions, ideas, let me know.

    I am going to fully document this build all the way through building, to having it inspected by California B.A.R. and getting swap legally certified. Rule in CA is that engine has to be same year or newer, and same size or larger, with all emission components installed off of motor being swapped in.
     
    mazdas4me, via a mobile device, Nov 6, 2019
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  2. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Platinum Member

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    Man I thought you were nuts for attempting this, then I read you are in California and are making it carb legal. You are certifiably nuta
     
    Easter Bunny, via a mobile device, Nov 6, 2019
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  3. mazdas4me

    mazdas4me Silver Member

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    Yep, I am nuts and have been called nuts many times! I am starting off in the general section first just to get any ideas from you guys, discuss shit, figure shit out, you know. Once I know project is a go, I will start a build thread. Pulling out front and rear subframes from speed today and getting a closer look at fit.
     
    mazdas4me, via a mobile device, Nov 6, 2019
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  4. mazdas4me

    mazdas4me Silver Member

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    IMG_20190929_180957.jpg Here is the Protege I am planning to do the transplant to.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
    mazdas4me, via a mobile device, Nov 6, 2019
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  5. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Platinum Member

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    FYI the speed ECU needs the gauge cluster to run. I would also plan on using the speed wiring harness in the protege
     
    Easter Bunny, via a mobile device, Nov 6, 2019
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  6. mazdas4me

    mazdas4me Silver Member

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    Yep, I am basically swapping bodies. Everything off speed will be used except: exterior lights, dome light, trunk light, wiper motor/linkage. And I will be using power windows/door locks off the Protege also.
     
    mazdas4me, via a mobile device, Nov 6, 2019
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  7. Raider

    Raider Administraider Administrator Platinum Member

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    Bro, this is an amazing project. Your son would be proud! Let me know if there is any way MSO can help.
     
    Raider, via a mobile device, Nov 6, 2019
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  8. mazdas4me

    mazdas4me Silver Member

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    WP_20191109_13_21_31_Pro.jpg WP_20191109_13_23_19_Pro.jpg WP_20191109_13_16_33_Pro.jpg WP_20191109_13_16_06_Pro.jpg WP_20191109_13_23_43_Pro.jpg The 2000 Protege and 2007 Speed3 are very similar in a lot of ways. Wheelbase difference within an inch, overall length within an inch. Most measurements are within an inch. The obvious big difference is where the engine is placed in the vehicle. The Speed3 is set back 3" more than the Protege. If I go the easy route and place it where it sits now, it would be a lot simpler of a swap. But then it would be front heavy, push like a turd, and be unsafe at higher speeds. The other thing I noticed is the Speed3 fuel tank is deeper and actually sits up into rear seat bottom area about 6 inches. I will need Speed3 fuel tank so that is not an easy bolt up mod either. Those are the 2 major modifications that will need to be done to make this swap worth while. Other things I have noted that will need addressing are the fuel doors opposite sides, will probably need to trim wheel openings depending where wheels end up and use bolt on fender flares, will need to adapt Speed3 door wiring harness's onto Protege doors, and of course supporting/bracing Protege body in the right places to support extra hp.

    For the engine placement issue, I am cutting out both front frame rails out of my salvaged Speed3, cutting/trimming them to fit over existing Protege frame rails. That will give me Speed3 mounts, strut towers, and the ability to slide mounts where I need to to get Speed3 similar engine placement. That will determine exactly where subframe mounts.

    For the fuel tank issue, I am going to cut out the Speed3 rear floor pan. Cut out the Protege rear floor pan. The Speed3 rear floor pan has the rear trailing arm mounts built into it. So placement is determined by where I decide to mount the rear subframe. Then I will have mounts for the Speed3 fuel tank, and rear trailing arms. I plan on doing a rear seat delete anyways, and adding roll bar and cross braces. But, if rear seat fits still, I may end up trying to make it look all factory. It just depends on how it all goes together.

    For the fuel fill door issue, I may just cut out the complete door out of Speed3 body, and adapt it to the Protege. It depends where it wants to exit once installed in Protege body. I don't want to cut or modify ANYTHING smog related because I have to get it CA, B.A.R. certified once complete, and they can get picky.

    I still can not find anything that just says no, it can't be done, or no, it's not worth doing.

    I am cutting frame rails off salvaged speed, as well as just going to cut it up into pieces while disassembling the rest of it. Once all. Cut up and disassembled, I will pull Protege motor and start the swap then. I will put up all the rough measurments/differences of both cars I have found and recorded, and a few pics comparing them, etc soon.

    This is a pre swap thread, so any help, criticism, ideas, will be greatly appreciated! I would rather do it right and not ponder back on project and think I should have done it differently.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
    mazdas4me, via a mobile device, Nov 10, 2019
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  9. mazdas4me

    mazdas4me Silver Member

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    In the pics, the Protege is lowered 2". The Speed is stock suspension on 235/40/18's. Keep that in mind with measurements like frame rail to ground, they are off over 2" due to the height differences.

    And no, the 07 Blue Speed3 GT is not the donor vehicle for this project. That's the main reason I have decided to go this route. I already have a Speed3. I have a salvaged Speed3 in my backyard that was totaled due to rear hatch area damage. Steering wheel wasn't even off center. A complete running, fully driveable, 2009 Speed3 with 90k miles on it to use for swap.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
    mazdas4me, via a mobile device, Nov 10, 2019
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  10. Mauro_Penguin

    Mauro_Penguin Punk in Drublic Motorhead Platinum Member

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    Stupid question...

    Could you use the Mazdaspeed Protege fuel tank (assuming its bigger) instead of swapping fuel doors/tank with the Speed3? Or is swapping the engine along with the matching fuel tank part of the whole C.A.R.B. legal certification?
     
    Mauro_Penguin, via a mobile device, Nov 10, 2019
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  11. mazdas4me

    mazdas4me Silver Member

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    No question is stupid here. You bring a valid point. I have thought some about it. For one, I hate the Protege fuel tank. It is metal and once car was lowered, it rattles internally over sharp bumps at slower speeds. New ones do the same thing I guess from what I have read. So I would be happy to get rid of it, but of course not at the expense of too much unnecessary work. If the fuel pump is not too much work to safely swap over to the Protege tank, then yes, I think that would be a better way to go. It would pass B.A.R. as long as all emissions from Speed3 are being used. I think once I get Protege apart, we can all take a look and hopefully come up with the best way to proceed. I can fab up, or cut out the rear trailing arm mounts and just use them. I have a lot of options having a full Speed3 body to use. I appreciate any help I can get!

    I need to get the Speed3 body disassembled, and cut into parts so I can put Protege where Speed3 is now and start disassembling it. Then I will be able to set engine/trans on rails, lift subframe's up into place, and really see where shit fits or doesn't...

    Can't wait!
     
    mazdas4me, via a mobile device, Nov 10, 2019
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  12. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Platinum Member

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    The best part about this is that you will maintain a running reference car the whole time
     
    Easter Bunny, via a mobile device, Nov 10, 2019
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  13. mazdas4me

    mazdas4me Silver Member

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    Yep, going to try to keep chassis specs as close to the Speed3 as I can. And I have a running vehicle to compare/match. I want wheelbase and alignment specs as if it were a Speed3.
     
    mazdas4me, via a mobile device, Nov 10, 2019
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  14. mazdas4me

    mazdas4me Silver Member

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    Question/opinion...

    If I decide to not extend rear axle back 4", what affect would that potentially have on DSC system?
    On turns would it think it is turning sharper than it actually is, due to shorter wheelbase?
    Don't want to extend rear if not needed. Let me know your very much appreciated expert opinions!:drive:
     
    mazdas4me, via a mobile device, Nov 11, 2019
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  15. mazdas4me

    mazdas4me Silver Member

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    IMG_20191111_112434.jpg IMG_20191111_112343.jpg IMG_20191111_112546.jpg IMG_20191111_112447.jpg IMG_20191111_112137.jpg IMG_20191111_113355.jpg IMG_20191111_112105.jpg IMG_20191111_113345.jpg IMG_20191111_112315.jpg IMG_20191111_113506.jpg IMG_20191111_112229.jpg IMG_20191111_113430.jpg IMG_20191111_111935.jpg IMG_20191111_113054.jpg IMG_20191111_112021.jpg IMG_20191111_113225.jpg IMG_20191111_113151.jpg
     
    mazdas4me, via a mobile device, Nov 11, 2019
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  16. mazdas4me

    mazdas4me Silver Member

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    Just some random pics... Those calipers and brake hoses are junk and not being used, just there to keep brake fluid in. Starting to cut up the Speed now... It was totaled due to the rear damage shown in pic. Bought it back for $1300
     
    mazdas4me, via a mobile device, Nov 11, 2019
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  17. Mauro_Penguin

    Mauro_Penguin Punk in Drublic Motorhead Platinum Member

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    I dont think it will have any effect at all. Any and every aspect of the traction control is based off of the ABS sensors and whatever speed they are reading. SWAS might be a different story, but this is a gen1 donor so you may be able to omit the damn steering sensor all together.

    Not moving the rear axle back 4" might give you a little more squat on take off, maybe a slight amount more roll in corners but that's about it.

    The car will be fairly nose heavy since you are putting in a much larger engine, but I dont think the offset rear axle will make much of a difference.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
    Mauro_Penguin, via a mobile device, Nov 11, 2019
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  18. mazdas4me

    mazdas4me Silver Member

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    IMG_20191111_145145.jpg This is what will align my engine, subframe and struts in the correct position. After I fit frame rails over existing protege rails, it will leave everything already ligned up. I have the Speed interior gutted, and am ready to pull dash today, and cut left front frame rails off. I will also need to use front seat belt retractors, as they are wired and part of the srs system.
     
    mazdas4me, via a mobile device, Nov 12, 2019
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  19. Maisonvi

    Maisonvi Silver Member

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    This is a fun read. Good luck man, you are going to need it, but Im for sure going to watch.
     
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  20. mazdas4me

    mazdas4me Silver Member

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    Didn't pull dash today. I got caught up measuring/comparing stuff and coming up with a game plan. I still can not find anything holding this project back.

    I now plan to leave rear axle centered in its original position. I was concerned shortening wheelbase on the speed's dsc system by 3" or so might have a neg affect on dsc operation. But after thinking about it a bit more, I had decided it would probably be fine. Mauro_Penguin chimed in and basically said the same thing. One less modification I need to do. It can also be done later, if for some reason a shorter wheel base does not work.

    In my last photo I uploaded, you can see the speed frame rail bolted onto the speed subframe, using oem front subframe mount still attached to frame rail. I did not realize how significant that was to the whole swap until I bolted it up. This will allow perfect alignment of engine to subframe, and perfect alignment of struts. This will take any guess work out of front alignment angles, and where to place upper strut towers, and align engine to subframe just as it was oem. Wherever I decide to put engine on the rails, that decides where my subframe bolts up, and where the strut tower will sit. Of course, the final measurement, and placement before final welding will be the critical point here, but having another speed to measure off, eases the mind for sure.

    The dash fits physically, but I really doubt it will be anywhere close to just bolting up. The heater/ac box bolts to firewall, then dash bolts over that. To make this simpler imo, I am going to cut out the speed's complete firewall, and floor pan all the way past the rear trailing arm mounts. Do the same to the protege. Then fit, shape, weld, seam seal the speeds firewall/floor pan onto and in place of protege's firewall and floor pan. Next I will install the support bar that runs behind the speed dash, as well as fab up, or cut off and transfer dash mounting points to protege. This will give me the correct firewall for the speed dash, give it enough room for turbo/downpipe, speed center console mounts, speed seat mounts, speed fuel tank mounts, as well as provide the rear speed trailing arm mount. The speed carpet should fit with minimal trimming.

    The rear fender will more than likely need to be trimmed to clear larger wheels/tires, and fender flares to hide cut fenders, and support the 2" wider trac.

    Front fenders will need trimming, and fender flares also. They will also need to be trimmed/modified on the rear side depending how much the front wheel center is moved rearward.

    Once I get the speed body all cut up, the protege on stands with engine/subframe out, I will start the "official" build thread. I need to verify a few more things, but need the protege engine/subframe out first. I don't see anything stopping it from going forward, but want to make sure before starting the build thread.

    I am pretty excited about this project! I wonder if the car insurance will go up, down, or remain the same after the swap and B.A.R. certification...

    What actually got me thinking of this swap is when I had to stop fast in the protege. I did not realize it didn't have abs! I assumed it did... 1 wheel locked up, and I stopped ok. Got home and checked it out and realized, no abs. That got me thinking I could make this car safer by doing the speed swap to it. I figured no way it would fit. Got to measuring and they are very close in a lot of ways, and engine bay was same size, and frame rails are same distance apart. And here I am...lol

    Any ideas, concerns, help, or anything, I would appreciate it. I would rather not look back and wish I had done something differently.
     
    mazdas4me, via a mobile device, Nov 13, 2019
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