Which Clutch Should I Get?

Discussion in 'Mazdaspeed 3 Transmission/Drivetrain' started by Redline, Oct 22, 2016.

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Which Clutch/FW Combination Should I Get?

  1. Luk 10-064 + Fidanza 161071 (~$545)

    4 vote(s)
    26.7%
  2. Spec Stage 3+ Self Ratcheting + Spec Aluminum Flywheel (~$1332)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. South Bend Stage 3 Daily (~$1197)

    6 vote(s)
    40.0%
  4. Spec Stage 3+ SZ033F-2 Fidanza 161071 (~$1147)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. South Bend Stage 3 Endurance (~$1305)

    5 vote(s)
    33.3%
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  1. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    So this happened today when I pulled check-up logs:
    upload_2016-10-22_17-2-57.png

    My OE clutch is at 70k miles, and has been ~380wtq since 42k. I can still drive the car and ride this out for a while, but it seems a new clutch is in the not-too-distant future.

    Priorities:
    1. Cost, obviously, which includes service life. If a clutch doesn't cost much but nets <50k miles, I'm not interested. This is still my daily.
    2. Future-proofing would be nice. One day, I'm planning on building/going EFR7163 and being tuned to ~500whp.

    The LuK + Fidanza is proven and the least expensive option. I'm just wondering how much it'll hold. Will it eventually timebomb like my OE clutch did at 380wtq? Re-tuning for lower tq is an option, but what fun is that???

    Between the Spec and the South Bend, I'm leaning toward the SB because of their rep and it costs less. Also, I chose the daily over the endurance because service life should be much longer. It's rated for 430lb/ft. Does anyone know if this is at the crank or at the wheels?

    I figure the SB would be a future-proof mod. with the EFR7163 on this clutch, I could be tuned for ~500whp and it should last a really long time, I'm thinking. 500whp @ 6,700 is ~391wtq. I figure I could just be tuned for maybe a flat 400wtq or so.

    Thoughts? Opinions? Things I'm overlooking?

    And especially, anyone with practical experience on this who can offer some guidance?
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  2. broda

    broda Greenie Member

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    I would just go for overbuilding it slightly just for peace of mind and that I have the mindset of doing things right the first time. I've heard varying opinions on the LUK/Fidanzda combo as well.
     
  3. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    Indeed... :D
    Only bad stuff I heard about was chatter. NBD to me. Did you hear anything else?
     
  4. broda

    broda Greenie Member

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    I've seen some people say that the clutch can be too soft. I'm not sure if that's a big deal to you, but I wouldn't be a fan of it personally.
     
  5. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    I'm just concerned with its longevity, particularly the ability to hold 380wtq long-term.
     
  6. VTMongoose

    VTMongoose John/MD1032 Greenie Member

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    ACT sprung 6-pad (ZX5-HDG6). Popular for a reason.
     
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  7. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    Indeed. But I heard it lasts not-too-long from lots of sources. A few said it lasts a good while (~50-60k miles), but those were the infrequent reports. That's why I chose, for instance, the South Bend Stage 3 Daily instead of Endurance - service life. I'll do more research, but I've done a ton already and the Act doesn't seem to meet this high-priority for me. This would probably be more up my alley, and last a lot longer: http://edgeautosport.com/act-clutch...azdaspeed-3-2007-2013-mazdaspeed-6-2006-2007/
    Not sure how it would fare with tracking, though...

    People who've run the 6-puck (or are running it) however, speak up, if you please. How long did it last you?
    [doublepost=1477279869][/doublepost]@Jason@DizzyTuning I was reading how you used the Act 6-puck then yanked it after not being able to stand it anymore. I'm still reading through the thread, but could you elaborate? All that I'm seeing so far confirms to me it's not DD friendly at all.

    I'm also starting to wonder if I should put the Clutchmasters FX400 into consideration. It's a full-faced clutch at a price comparable to the South Bend, but is rated at over 700tq o.0
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
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  8. Jason@DizzyTuning

    Jason@DizzyTuning Former Vendor

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    I ran the ACT street/strip clutch, which is a full face disc. But, I believe it uses the same pressure plate as the 6 puck kit. I did not like pedal feel and engagement at all with this clutch. The pedal felt like I was going to blow one of my hydraulic lines, and the engagement was so brutal that I felt like I was going to tear my motors mounts out of the car.

    I pulled it out shortly after for a Spec (stage 2+, I think), and never looked back. Pedal feel was oem, and engagement was perfect. No chatter at all. I also used the oem flywheel with this setup and has lasted me 50k so far.
     
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  9. VTMongoose

    VTMongoose John/MD1032 Greenie Member

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    The full face and 6 pad share the same pressure plate. What you've described is exactly the way the 6 pad is when you drive it hard. I love it. It grips so hard it sounds/feels like a bomb is going off in the car when I drop the clutch while flat foot shifting. I do have Damond trilogy mounts which probably helps, as they handle the drivetrain shock well. Once you get used to the pucked clutches and learn to modulate them properly, they can be driven very smoothly and easily. Pedal effort is at worst 25% stiffer than stock. My dad DD's a 2004 Accord and he told me it felt like a normal clutch to him, not much worse than his. I spent 13 hours on the road yesterday and was in three major traffic jams and I can say this clutch is 100% not a problem in those scenarios. The only bad thing I have to say about the 6 pad is that it is not as easy to slip at the drag strip as a regular organic disc.

    I skipped the full face and went for the 6 pad because an ACT representative on the phone told me the organic disc would not be able to handle >350 ft-lbs at the crank. At $800 shipped with the street flywheel, the pucked one was barely more expensive anyway though.

    One thing OP could consider is a kevlar clutch because I had an enthusiast friend at my previous companies who swore by those. Apparently they are easy to modulate and wear like iron.
     
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  10. PURPFOX

    PURPFOX Greenie Member

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    I went the endurance route. stiff but so far nice
     
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  11. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    Thanks, man. I'm honestly just worried about the service life of the Act. I'd rather spend twice as much and have it last 100k instead. When you mention Kevlar clutches, do you have specific recommendations? I guess you mean the South Bend Stage 3, but endurance instead of daily?

    So far, I think this one is in the lead: http://edgeautosport.com/spec-stage-3-clutch-kit-mazdaspeed-3-2007-2013-mazdaspeed-6-2006-2007-1/
    There's a review in there of someone using it with a Fidanza, and they love it. They said even with the Fidanza, there's no chatter and the pedal feels light (leading me to believe original slave would be just fine). It's also advertised to "[feature] a carbon semi-metallic full faced material that offers unparalleled life, friction co-efficient and drivability characteristics in one single package ... Great for street, drag, drift, autocross, road racing, pulling, rallye and drift" which seems right up my alley. And with it's light pedal effort (according to the reviewer), my slave cylinder should present no issues.

    I may also have a new rear main seal on hand, just in case. It could just be that oil has leaked on my clutch. I'm also going to dry some of the deglazing techniques I've seen on the other forum to see if they help.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016
  12. HawkeyeGeoff

    HawkeyeGeoff MSO Chicks Greenie Member

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    If you're willing the pony up for it, definitely get the SB Stage 3 endurance. This is the longest lasting clutch you can buy for aftermarket according to empirical data via people on the forums (MSF).

    I own one on my car. I'm at ~450wtq already and no issues. It is easier to drive than the stock clutch even. It is just a tad heavier, but the engagement is butter smooth and nice low engagement point. Highly, highly recommend it. I do this stuff for a living...believe me it's phenomenal.

    When you do replace your clutch make sure you grab a new slave though; I've yet to see one not pop upon changing to an aftermarket clutch.
     
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  13. PURPFOX

    PURPFOX Greenie Member

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    When you say low, how low is low. trying to figure out if its where it should be or if i need to bleed more.
     
  14. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    Just to play devil's advocate, why not save a few hundred and get the daily instead of endurance? Then, I can get a new slave for ~$100: B37F-41-920B http://www.onlinemazdaparts.com/pro...ory=0&isPerformance=0&searchTerm=B37F-41-920B, and a new rear main seal for ~$65: LF01-11-310A http://www.onlinemazdaparts.com/pro...ory=0&isPerformance=0&searchTerm=LF01-11-310A, just in case oil on the clutch is the issue.

    I suppose if the daily isn't appropriate for auto-x/tracking/etc., then the endurance would be fore me with an eye towards future-proofing.

    Also, I've heard the "always replace the slave" rhetoric. Is this specific to Won's? I have a Pu. I've also heard "I didn't replace the slave; no issues" many times too. I'm trying to disentangle the conflicting information and get to the bottom of this.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016
  15. VTMongoose

    VTMongoose John/MD1032 Greenie Member

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    @JgamB and I are still using our original slave cylinders. The key is to ziptie the slave in the fully retracted position to prevent the rod from overextending and blowing the seals on the inside of the thing.
     
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  16. HawkeyeGeoff

    HawkeyeGeoff MSO Chicks Greenie Member

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    Basically right off the floor. It's about as low as you can get while still having reserve.

    The reason behind this is the pressure plate fingers actually are farther back than the OEM's. This goes for the ACT pressure plates as well. I believe they do this to accommodate a higher clamping load (higher spring rates are easier to achieve with a smaller reserve).

    I had to bleed mine a bunch; I ended up using a power bleeder to finally get all the air out.
    [doublepost=1477335623][/doublepost]
    So the difference between the Stage 3 daily and endurance is just the pad material. The pressure plate is the same and will give you the same pressure load.

    SB stated that you will not feel a difference in engagement between the two (I can totally believe this because how easy the endurance is to drive) and stated the endurance will be the longest lasting option. So really up to you. I think @Raider has a daily version of the Stage 2 or 3 maybe he can chime in. I'd still recommend endurance all the way.
     
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  17. PURPFOX

    PURPFOX Greenie Member

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    awesome @HawkeyeGeoff maybe I'm good. about a half to an inch off the floor and its grabbing
     
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  18. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    In the meanwhile, I'm trying the clutch deglazing trick. I've never had an event at the track or anything where I burned the clutch badly/smelled that terrible, characteristic smell. Nevertheless, Enki was telling me about getting up to speed, depressing the clutch until rpms drop to idle, then slowly letting out the clutch pedal to reverse-slip it when coming up to redlights, for instance, which gets me a second or two of the trans/engine going in opposite directions, hopefully roughing up the clutch disc. I'm going to try doing this for ~week or so, then going WOT again to see if it helped. He said he's had no trouble with his stock clutch holding 400wtq, so we'll see. I don't downshift/engine brake coming up to relights. I usually just pull it into neutral and coast, so maybe this will help.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016
  19. Raider

    Raider Administraider Administrator Platinum Member

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    Daily driver is only 340 lbs of torque. Endourance is 500. I wish I did the latter. I'm wanting to feel out other options if I decide to go further.
     
    Raider, via an iPhone, Oct 25, 2016
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  20. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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