500whp No Aux

Discussion in 'Mazdaspeed 3 General Discussion' started by Poon_Flavored_Tang, Feb 25, 2016.

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  1. Poon_Flavored_Tang

    Poon_Flavored_Tang Greenie Member

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    Here's a 4th gear log. If you're wondering why I started so early in the RPM to start a log is b/c I had to let a car get some distance and I wanted to similar as much load as possible. Plus prepping for a dyno run.

    I'll let you guys throw it in vdyno. I'm a fatass plus I haul around a full set of gen1 seats and a set of stock calipers. I'd say total weight somewhere between 330-350 at least. I'm a big boi. Tire size is 25.71in
     

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    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
  2. Poon_Flavored_Tang

    Poon_Flavored_Tang Greenie Member

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    This is likely the tune I'm going to roll with on the dyno. Albeit with a 6500rpm rev limit. She normally nets 28.x psi in 4th gear. The log I've attached is 3rd gear with minimal traction. Started precipitating something fluffy unfortunately.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 3, 2016
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  3. Poon_Flavored_Tang

    Poon_Flavored_Tang Greenie Member

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    It's gettin' there bitches

    @25psi
    upload_2016-3-8_14-40-14.png
     
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  4. KCi

    KCi Greenie Member

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    Ryan, I have to admit and really admired on what you have achieved so far. Not everyone have the balls to go into risk territory (potential zzb) for the name of science. I know there are ppl out there disagreeing on your data, but what the heck, you did good job here. I appreciate your effort in continuing pushing this platform further.
     
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  5. Poon_Flavored_Tang

    Poon_Flavored_Tang Greenie Member

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    There's a couple who have their jimmy's ruffled that I shall not tag in here due to request. I think it stems from an earlier situation that I had nothing to do with, but I'll leave that behind closed doors at the moment. I just know this cliche of guys have been on my ass since starting this. And even more so, after a friend that I tuned made some numbers they didn't believe. I guess they found out in demoralizing fashion I wasn't on a "happy" dyno as proclaimed. "They" were happy as a lark when it dynoed before knowing the dyno brake was engaged. Now, they all mad again for what? Because I'm tuning my car risque? Or because they don't believe another local to me is putting up the #'s he did on a fairly conservative tune. But who knows.

    I'm taking this in a methodical approach to get past this "380whp" wall. It can Easily be done. Just maybe not to the extreme that I've taken it. Thanks though, I'm glad some have gotten a sense of intrigue by what I'm doing. In the end, @Enki got some data he was needing and I got to stroke a curious twitch about what really is the limit of power on stock fuel.
     
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  6. rfinkle2

    rfinkle2 Greenie Member

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    The other local claims the car is making 370 whp on 20 psi, but the car isn't running 20 psi. Just because the boost targets in the map are 20 psi doesn't mean the car is running 20 psi. LOL. That is just evidence of a shitty tune.

    What people are saying is that how you are presenting the data on FB, is not quite the way you have been presenting it on here.

    What 380 HP wall do you keep alluding to?

    You do realize that there is a 1000 + hp ms6, and tons of reliable vehicles fueled way over what your car is making?

    @Enki out of curiosity, is there not a function in terms of injector flow needed for x HP now that you have the math for?
     
  7. Enki

    Enki Motorhead Platinum Member

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    Not quite. The problem is this platform (as you and every other tuner knows) makes more HP off of timing than it does changes in AFR; thus, it's proving time consuming as far as figuring out how to approach the problem.

    I guess the best thing to do would be to take a big turbo pump gas (91) only car with minimal timing and use that as the basis for plotting out an average torque curve for, and then using that average to calculate potential power output across the grid I have posted in my injector thread. It would be a lowball number across the grid but it *might* work out ok.
     
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  8. rfinkle2

    rfinkle2 Greenie Member

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    So where are you @ with this experiment James.. because I really have to try to put my mind around what exactly the question is now..

    Is the question a goal of how much to increase the potential fuel of the car?

    Because it seems at this point that whatever data you are collecting from Ryan's car is something that could be more responsibly plotted/ tuned for once the injectors are ready.
     
  9. Enki

    Enki Motorhead Platinum Member

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    I'm pretty much done collecting data from Ryan; he's done enough stress testing and there's no reason for him to absorb all the risk for my science. The goal right now is to find out if it might not be better to run past 100% IDC a little vs add that extra degree of timing, but I likely won't know for sure until I know exactly how the ECU handles injection control, which the boys at VersaTune have on their list to look at now. From there, I'll suggest new tables to give us better control over how the ECU responds to changes in injector timing, and possibly a further change to IDC calculation which will make more sense (always use the entire window vs moving it around and compensating). Not sure if you've seen the update in my other thread but it's worth a read.
     
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  10. Poon_Flavored_Tang

    Poon_Flavored_Tang Greenie Member

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    You're right. All the logs are a lie. The logs from his dynos are all lies. He's rolling around on a shitty tune putting down something you don't see as possible.

    I posted my results to FB. Nothing more. Nothing less. I guess all those who think they know everything got a little offended by it. I don't see you posting results with an attached memoir explaining it. I'm not going to either.

    I was told I couldn't hit 400whp on pump gas that 380whp was the max. This being spouted by your clique of goons. Those same homos telling me to suck their dick because they all mad over the internet. It's been a great ride, and those sour grapes are delicious. I was content on just doing logs. Doing this for internet cred? BWHAHAHA yeah good one there Rob. I think anyone who personally knows me I'm not all about this "internet cred" you bring up in another post. However, the dynos were just a product of you and Sari saying it isn't possible. I guess that dyno isn't as "happy" as you thought was it?

    I hope you realize I don't care what that or any MS6 makes. I think you realize all those cars are also pushing a lot of aux fueling around. Their numbers have absolute zero relevancy to this thread.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2016
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  11. djohns

    djohns Greenie Member

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    So what is it going to take for everyone to be friends again? I understand we have disagreements and some may or may not believe the numbers. Regardless if they're true or not I think all this back and forth stuff is silly. An actual dyno sheet would clear this all up and make everyone happy. I'm not trying to take sides here, I have my opinion on the matter after reading through everything, I just think the bickering back and forth should stop because it's not helping or solving anything. Just my o2.
     
    djohns, via an iPhone, Mar 9, 2016
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  12. dagrimey1

    dagrimey1 Neva' Slippin' Greenie Member

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    It was dyno'ed last weekend as I was there to see it.

    Sent using Moto Fo Sho Doe
     
    dagrimey1, via a mobile device, Mar 9, 2016
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  13. rfinkle2

    rfinkle2 Greenie Member

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    lets see a log of the car making 360 hp on 20 psi. Produce that, the log and I will agree that the car made 36x hp on 20 psi.

    My point of contention is NOT the car making that power, it is doing so on 20 psi.

    Data please. Thank you.

    Your buddy I think?

    Considering all this is data for science, I feel like accuracy on the boost these cars are running makes good sense.
    [doublepost=1457567362][/doublepost] upload_2016-3-9_18-45-10.png
    ^ What 380 hp wall are you talking about? You are all over the place with your comments.

    Your car is an outlier my friend... and a dangerously tuned outlier @ that. Leaning the car out @ 145 IDC, and posting as if that can be done typically is irresponsible and has nothing to do with science.

    [​IMG]

    I don't know that I ever once said that a t3 flanged 35r coudn't make any more than 380 hp on pump gas.

    You are twisting the points that are being made to you.

    [​IMG]

    ^no explanation, just yes. Stock fueling. You know what Ryan, I'll send you the guys who want to make 500 hp on the stock fuel system.. You let em know how it's done.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2016
  14. Poon_Flavored_Tang

    Poon_Flavored_Tang Greenie Member

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    Hey Rob, I told him exactly what it was. He asked if it was 5/6th port and I said no. No aux fueling b/c that's exactly what it is. I told you weeks ago Cory was at 21-22psi and you brushed it off.

    And what does it matter if my car is an outlier? We have an opportunity to see what happens when stretching shit bonkers. Use the opportunity to further our knowledge of the platform no matter how invaluable some may think it is.

    Anyways, I'm posting our full conversation. I have nothing to hide with my setup or Cory's. Cory's vdyno lined up within 1-2hp of his actual dyno. The link to our conversation

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2016
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  15. rfinkle2

    rfinkle2 Greenie Member

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    That is pretty accurate, but again, just like always you forget the point of contention, and that Cory posted his car made 370 on 20 psi.

    I don't see me saying anything out of line... LOL. That is a really nice set of screenshots. I'll have to use that thumbnail option more often.\

    Logs ?
     
  16. Poon_Flavored_Tang

    Poon_Flavored_Tang Greenie Member

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    I'm not responsible for what Cory posts. I told you 2 weeks ago the car made 363@21ish psi. The vdyno was pretty spot on accurate minus the tq.


    Yeah Thank @Raider it auto done it like a boss.
     
  17. rfinkle2

    rfinkle2 Greenie Member

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    Your posts are irresponsible, no log from the dyno, and you admitted to looking for attn with your posts.

    Are you finished trying to make it as if you are doing something scientific?

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Poon_Flavored_Tang

    Poon_Flavored_Tang Greenie Member

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    I never once mentioned I was looking for attention with my posts. However, there's an element of attention seeking when merely posting to Facebook regardless of the context of the post. I'm just not looking for the "attention" in which you're trying to imply. I posted my results like everyone else before me. It's just that the content of my posts isn't well liked for whatever reasons.

    As I said previously, I was content on just doing logs behind the scene. I was only pushed to dyno by some of the butthurt responses I got. In fact, I still wasn't even going to dyno anyways, but just put it on there while Cory checked his plugs.
    [doublepost=1457572684][/doublepost]Anyways, testing completed. Proven 500whp without Aux is definitely doable. @Raider Feel free to lock if needed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2016
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  19. Raider

    Raider Administraider Administrator Platinum Member

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    Jesis guys, can't we make it a month without cat fights?

    Not gonna lock it because really, I would love to see 500 without aux fueling. And if we can dump the drama, I would be happy.
     
    Raider, via an iPhone, Mar 9, 2016
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  20. Enki

    Enki Motorhead Platinum Member

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    And don't try this at home, kids. No, seriously.
    [doublepost=1457573476][/doublepost]
    If you've read the thread, then you have. I have the recipe if you wanna bake it. It's kinda like drying your clothes with a napalm flamethrower though, so you should have a new engine ready to go just in case.
     
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