Building for the road course...again

Discussion in 'Cars' started by gotovato, Nov 18, 2021.

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  1. gotovato

    gotovato Greenie Member

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    So. I was out for session number 1. Was showing my ms6 buddy around the track. Turning the speed up.

    All of a sudden the car developed a serious shake. Oh man. Wtf.

    Pulled into the pits and my buddy instantly points out one broken stud. So I waited for the car to cool and decided to check torque. 4 lugs is still good enough right!

    first lug I touch, falls right off in my hand. Well damn. Pulled the wheel off. Took the brake apart and off we went to the local parts store to get some studs and lug nuts.

    About to replace studs and notice this…
    BC5DBFC7-DA62-4D36-A4DB-7F63EAF641FE.jpeg

    Hub was cracked right through to the back. Well fuck. I was suggested to not even try driving on it. Well fuck I wasn’t gonna give up.

    Called around and found a hub 20 minutes away at a carquest.
    CC6CA87C-7522-4555-9131-9A812578489E.jpeg

    Track side repair was a success. I then proceeded to run the quickest lap time of the day lol.

    Apparently the hub cracking is common on heavily tracked civics 8th and 9th gen. The car has 21 track days on it since I bought it last august.

    Also almost got into a fight with some idiot in a Subaru. Fuck people suck lol. That footage will be good.
     
    gotovato, via an iPhone, Sep 4, 2022
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  2. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Platinum Member

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    So will you be keeping a spare hub in your tool kit?
     
    Easter Bunny, via a mobile device, Sep 5, 2022
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  3. gotovato

    gotovato Greenie Member

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    Yes absolutely going forward. There’s a local guy here who has an 8th Gen stock pile. He buys cars parts them out. Pair of rear oem hubs for $250. That’s a good deal so I’ll grab 2 from him and keep them as spares for sure.
     
    gotovato, via an iPhone, Sep 5, 2022
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  4. L337TurboZ

    L337TurboZ World Class Truck Squatter Platinum Member

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    Why not just get some ARP wheel studs?
     
    L337TurboZ, via a Motorola device, Sep 5, 2022
  5. gotovato

    gotovato Greenie Member

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    The hub is the failure point not so much the studs. I asked around about arp studs and was told to save the money.
     
    gotovato, via an iPhone, Sep 5, 2022
  6. gotovato

    gotovato Greenie Member

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    I went real fast at the track today.

    Till this…
    9200CE99-EC39-4929-BEA1-B44615D60E2F.jpeg CF2EC9EA-D569-4A1F-9D1C-68E49463C4E2.jpeg

    Oooof.
     
    gotovato, via an iPhone, Sep 5, 2022
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  7. L337TurboZ

    L337TurboZ World Class Truck Squatter Platinum Member

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    Ah ok y'all civic guys must have the same issues the Miata's have. There's a guy who uses/makes MR2 hubs for Miata's. I wonder if something similar can be done for your generation Civic.

    Basically it comes down to the hub flange being too thin. Once heated up from stress it either cracks or breaks right off.

    https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep-75/mr-s-rear-hub-discussion-94420/

    It also doesn't help your hub has extra holes in it.
     
    L337TurboZ, via a Motorola device, Sep 5, 2022
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  8. gotovato

    gotovato Greenie Member

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    I think you’re right. It’s just not thick enough and the holes don’t help. I’m sure something custom could be done but it would be real expensive I’m sure
     
    gotovato, via an iPhone, Sep 5, 2022
  9. L337TurboZ

    L337TurboZ World Class Truck Squatter Platinum Member

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    I don't think it would be that expensive actually. You'd have to research a bunch of cars and bearing specs but all you really need is the hub.

    The measurements you need are:

    Spline count, hub diameter, lug spacing, lug thickness, bearing inner diameter, and hub length.

    Any machine shop should be able to put the hub on a lathe and take it down if that needs to be done.

    I'm glad you or your car wasn't hurt when your hub failed. Depending on the situation it could have turned out badly.

    Maybe some people on the Civic forums may know of a solution.
     
    L337TurboZ, via a Motorola device, Sep 6, 2022
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  10. SyntheticAtmosphere

    SyntheticAtmosphere You only get ONE ride, ONE ticket, ONE time! Silver Member

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    Dont even need a spline count, it the rear hub, one thing off the list. lol
    Looks like it was cracking from the weak area at the access hole, not the stud hole.
    Check into having the extra holes filled. Shops can weld up 4 bolt axles and re-drill to 5 bolt, dont see why they couldnt weld up yours.
    A good friend has my old mustang. He machine converted to 5 bolt and has had no issues. It has seen 300+hp V8s when I sold it to him, it now has a Nissan SR20DET loaded with goodies...same axles.
     
  11. gotovato

    gotovato Greenie Member

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    I was wondering about having the current hubs filled in or modified in some way but I wondered if balance might be affected? Is that something that would be at all noticeable anyways? Hmm. I can get a pair of used oem hubs pretty easily and clean them up. Then id just need to find someone willing to modify them

    I’ll had to do some digging. Until Saturday I didn’t even know this kind of failure was possible nevermind something I may encounter again
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 6, 2022
    gotovato, via an iPhone, Sep 6, 2022
  12. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Platinum Member

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    welding in the holes in the stock flange could heat up the hub enough to cause failure on its own....

    i would be looking at other fwd hondas to see if any of them use a heavier duty hub that bolts in, i assume that people on the forums would have done this already.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2022
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  13. gotovato

    gotovato Greenie Member

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    This is a good point. I’ll need to take a look for sure. I’d really rather a bolt in off the shelf solution so hopefully one exists.

    also looks like I’m heading to gingerman for the weekend of September 17/18 for a track weekend. Nervous yes, but it should be a hell of a good time.
     
    gotovato, via an iPhone, Sep 6, 2022
  14. gotovato

    gotovato Greenie Member

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    How my car got home yesterday after that tire shredded

    Very lucky buddy had his double stacked there lol
    B07DECBE-573E-4BD8-8A0E-F8122E86318C.jpeg

    Civics sitting above his corvette zr1. That thing is mental fast. I was 2 seconds off his time in my civic. My civic hits 164kph down the back straight. The zr1 hits 215 effortlessly with me braking early. Holy shit is it fast.

    I managed to go 1 second faster then my buddy in his zr1. He threw me the keys and I tried to say no buttttttt everyone wanted to see this happen.

    keep in mind I have basically 0 rwd experience.




    One flier directly before my tire opened up. I know there is maybe 1 second left in the car. Just maybe.

    the final right hand corner leading onto the straight, under braking for that corner I felt the front end load up so heavy I thought something broke or I lost power steering.

    the sweeper at the end of the straight away punishes tires. You’re just modulating the throttle to carry maximum speed without understeer and I do believe I was at the absolute limit. 5% more throttle and it would’ve been terminal understeer. I could feel the car squirming around as I made it do what I wanted.

    this lap time is real. This crazy is a lot of flow and a lot of speed carry. Power goes a very long way here.

     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2022
    gotovato, via an iPhone, Sep 6, 2022
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  15. SyntheticAtmosphere

    SyntheticAtmosphere You only get ONE ride, ONE ticket, ONE time! Silver Member

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    Was Grand Bend a faster track than Cayuga? Looks like you are carrying more speed through out. Also looks much shorter.
     
  16. L337TurboZ

    L337TurboZ World Class Truck Squatter Platinum Member

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    ZR1's are no joke. I've driven a few of them around at work. What I really want to try is the new Z06 when it comes out. I drove a new Stingray and it was pretty cool. GM's new DOHC and flat plane crank V8 is gonna be sick.

    With you saying you have no RWD experience and running a fast time like that I can only imagine how fast you'd really be if you drove one on the regular. Those ZR1's can handle a lot of abuse and be somewhat forgiving. Unlike driving a Mustang where you goose it too much in a turn and you're spun out.
     
    L337TurboZ, via a Motorola device, Sep 6, 2022
  17. gotovato

    gotovato Greenie Member

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    So grand bend has a higher average speed over tmp dependent on layout. There’s a few configurations for grand bend but the 2 most common(and my favorites) are
    Modified layout
    And technical layout
    EE52312C-9B00-4ABF-81D6-0F6FC5CA10A3.png

    Power helps a ton at grand bend. The straight is long and there are a few corners that require 0 brakes, and not even any lifting. There’s one corner I’m still lifting a tad bit in and that might be costing me a couple tenths but otherwise I think I’m pretty much out of power

    So I’ve never driven rwd on track. Never really pushed one. I’ve also never owned a rwd car so I’ve never done any drifty type shit or any of that. I didn’t even want to drive the thing.

    it is definitely a crazy fast car. It was on pretty worn sport cup 2’s so that didn’t help. The rear would easily get loose at 70mph down the straight.

    the only thing that helped me was what I learned from my civic and spinning it out 100 times after loosening up the rear.
    “Straighten the damn wheel before applying any power, be 10x smoother then you’ve ever been before with both throttle and steering, and react quickly with counter steer if need be”.

    To be honest I kinda drove it like I drive my Honda these days. I could even get it to understeer pretty easy lol.

    that said, I did go a full second faster then the owner who tracks that car all the time.

    I was also able to get the carbon ceramics to fade. That wasn’t fun at 135mph down the back straight lol. My guess is I was just too much on the brake. Not my car and all so didn’t want to push it. Was also a little terrified lol.

    few more sessions and I’m sure the time would’ve just dropped away like nothing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2022
    gotovato, via an iPhone, Sep 6, 2022
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  18. gotovato

    gotovato Greenie Member

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    Emailed falken about my tire falling apart. People keep telling me that is not normal and is part of the rt660 “delamination issue”. I’m hoping they warranty the front tires for me. At least the one. Would be helpful lol
     
    gotovato, via an iPhone, Sep 7, 2022
  19. L337TurboZ

    L337TurboZ World Class Truck Squatter Platinum Member

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    I am looking at getting a set of them since you said they were good tires but now I'm hesitant. I'll have to wait and see what Falken does for you in terms of warranty before I pull the trigger on a set.
     
    L337TurboZ, via a Motorola device, Sep 7, 2022
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  20. gotovato

    gotovato Greenie Member

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    Falken stepped up. This is some serious customer service. That being said, my shop also told them whatever they needed to hear.
    592BD89E-D6AA-4B42-9BE4-291B15272FE6.jpeg
     
    gotovato, via an iPhone, Sep 7, 2022
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