CPe safe seals vs CS tokay seals

Discussion in 'Mazdaspeed 3 General Discussion' started by AlsChopShop, Mar 12, 2016.

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  1. AlsChopShop

    AlsChopShop Greenie Member

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    Here is a quick comparison of the CPe seals vs the CS seals.

    CPe seals with only 10k miles, all 4 stuck in the head on injector removal. A pilot bearing slide hammer has popped 2 free, 2 are disintegrating, and scoring the injector sleeve in the head.

    [​IMG]

    CS tokay seals with 20k miles, all 4 came out with the injectors and are in perfect shape.

    [​IMG]

    The CS injector seals are clearly a superior design. So keep this in mind before you drop a couple hundred bucks on seals.


    Al
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2016
    AlsChopShop, via a mobile device, Mar 12, 2016
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  2. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    Think they're re-installable? Misanthropy aside, Tokay designed some good seals. They're what I'd choose.
     
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  3. 78jdbronco

    78jdbronco Greenie Member

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    the CS seals are crush seals and, therefore, disposable.
    "Reliable beryllium copper cups allow proper crush sealing."
    "The seals are designed to be installed once and CorkSport will not guarantee removal and a subsequent reinstallation."
     
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  4. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    I hear ya, but I wonder if that's just a CYB statement. It's like all the methanol kit manufacturers saying not to use greater than 50/50 because of liability/flammability issues even though the hardware is fine with straight methanol (except AEM's flow meter, LOL).

    It'd be interesting if someone was willing to try reinstalling used CS seals, then do a variety of testing to see if they perform just as well as the original CS seals.
     
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  5. djohns

    djohns Greenie Member

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    Actually there is someone on the other forum that did. I can't really recall his name but as far as I know he isn't having any issues
     
    djohns, via an iPhone, Mar 18, 2016
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  6. neganox

    neganox Feline Führer Moderator Platinum Member

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    Pretty sure people have re-used them several times. The cup like seal at the bottom is a spring.

    I remember cp-e telling people to use some permetex sealant on their seals. Sucks OP had issues with them. Looks like the same shittery that happened with SURE seals.
     
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  7. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    The idea that permatex is advised is very concerning to me. I don't care what variety of permatex you're using, I wouldn't feel comfortable it being in there long term with all of the pressure, substances, heat, compression, expansion, etc. that is seen. For me, CS seals or nothing; they just strike me as a vastly superior design that needs no band-aids like permatex.
     
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  8. Loken

    Loken Greenie N00B Member

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    CP-E seals are only good if used along with permatex yes. It's like a 50% chance that it leaks if not using it. Most people don't remove their seals just to check them so there are probably a lot of people driving around with leaking seals without knowing it. It's a compromise between getting the seal into the bore and still be tight enough to seal.

    There's a racecar MS3 here who uses cpe seals and they beat the shit out of their car hour after hour on nurburgring and he said the only way for them to make sure there's no leak is to glue it to the head. So if they plan on reusing the head the seal needs to be drilled out. #Racecarlife
     
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  9. KingScumbag

    KingScumbag Greenie Member

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    Permatex 2 is what I and many others have used with CPe seals. It's worked but I don't like it.

    It's a "non hardening sealant". Say that in quotations because the shit turns rock hard. I do agree that it shouldn't be an application of use in regards to the injector sealing, fueling and sensitivity/reliability. I have another CPe set sitting here that I've been playing with getting rid of and replacing on my current head rebuild. I'v had two CPe seals melt into a previous head. Not even an extractor would remove them.

    I've been eyeing the CS seals as much as I don't prefer CS products.
     
    KingScumbag, via an iPhone, Mar 19, 2016
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  10. neganox

    neganox Feline Führer Moderator Platinum Member

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    Granted I'm not big turbo, track my car, or in complete racecar mode, but my CS seals have had no issues.
     
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  11. Awafrican

    Awafrican Moderator Silver Member

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    And here I thought cpe seals were the way to go... Didn't even know people were having issues with them
     
    Awafrican, via a mobile device, Mar 19, 2016
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  12. Castillo817

    Castillo817 Greenie Member

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    Haven't had any issues with my cpe seals, yet.
     
    Castillo817, via a mobile device, Mar 19, 2016
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  13. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    Good to know. You're not alone. It just seems to me that it's much more of a crapshoot with them than the CS ones. That's what makes me uneasy...
     
  14. KingScumbag

    KingScumbag Greenie Member

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    The CPe seals have been around for quite some time now. Let's not forget that.

    Has it even been a year since the CS seals were released?

    I'm not saying that the CPe seals are superior to the CS seals based on time in existence but this is the first I have seen anyone with real world testing experience that has written it down and taken notes for the community.

    Maybe that is because they are just that good.

    I've heard through a reputable third party that there has been some serious failure with the CS seals. How true is that? Idk, maybe hogwash, maybe not.

    Does Just Borrowed still make his Chinese seals too?
     
    KingScumbag, via an iPhone, Mar 20, 2016
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  15. 78jdbronco

    78jdbronco Greenie Member

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    Yes, cpe was the injector seal leader for a while. Then people started putting miles on them, testing for multiple years, and THEN found the problems. In typical msf fashion, it was bandwagon real hard then mass bashing at first sign of trouble.

    That's a typical life cycle. The lucky ones like cobb are able to ride that out and return to good statue.

    The fact is that the mazdaspeed community seems to be extremely susceptible to group think and tempermental mood swings
     
    78jdbronco, via a mobile device, Mar 20, 2016
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  16. predapio

    predapio Greenie Member

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    Yeah I agree, I think the same people that deserted MSF are now on the "anyone but Trump" bandwagon. They are prolly the ones demonstrating outside his rallies.

    As an aside, I had 2 sets of CPe seals. When I put the new motor in, the old ones wouldn't come out, so I got new ones.
     
  17. 78jdbronco

    78jdbronco Greenie Member

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    I thought the ones that deserted msf are the ones who came here
     
    78jdbronco, via a mobile device, Mar 20, 2016
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  18. Redline

    Redline I done fucked up for the last time. BANNED Greenie Member

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    I don't know about all of that. Personally, I'm on the anyone but Hillary bandwagon. Her rhetoric is weak, geared toward the sheeple masses who don't understand economics 101, and it's also very likely that she's legitimately a felon (at least allegedly).
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2016
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  19. AlsChopShop

    AlsChopShop Greenie Member

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    Did you have to scrap the head or did you find a solution?

    Al



    Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk
     
    AlsChopShop, via a mobile device, Mar 20, 2016
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  20. neganox

    neganox Feline Führer Moderator Platinum Member

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    Many of us exist in both places.
     
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