John's BNR S3 daily driver performance build

Oh my, as of last night, things are definitely not going well. I swapped back to my street setup last night and with roughly 2500 miles on them my new RS3's are now cupped pretty noticeably in the rear on the inside edge, which basically confirms my suspicion that the valving on the rear is no good.



Clearly, the rears have some kind of major problem on the rebound side. Worst thing about this situation is that there's really no way around swapping the passenger side trailing arm and hub assembly since I ruined that while installing these.

I'm really starting to get to the limit of my patience here. Bilstein dragged this revalve out for a long time and still fucked it up. Granted they charged me almost nothing for it, but now I have shocks that are probably worse than OTS in the rear.

 

So, haven't updated this thread in a while, because not much has happened. I'm STILL waiting for Bilstein in CA to re-revalve my rears.

In the meantime I am formulating a plan to deal with a problem I have, which is the GC camber plates starting to go bad already after...12k miles I think? The bushings that hold the strut to the camber plate have loosened up big time. The up and down looseness could be fixed with washers. The real issue is noticeable side to side looseness. I can rock the whole driver's side hub/strut/wheel a few mm with my bare hands and the car jacked up. Fun. I might get the Corksport ones. Alternatively I could find a way to make another tapered washer for the top (which I now realize is designed to "squish" the bushing outwards to prevent lateral play...well, for 10k miles at least...).

Almost blew my motor in Rantoul a couple weeks ago. Leaned out big time. Luckily I was on in tank meth at the time, so, no knock. Also I think I can officially declare that my engine is a unicorn at this point.



Still need to pull the FP internals and see what's going on. Motor seems perfectly fine, though. I'm moving in two weeks, so I've had very little time lately to do anything.

 

ouchhh!!! do u run e85? prob just need to clean the internals or run some of that s-1 stuff from the 100 e85 thread.

 

Dang, that log makes me pucker. Are you still stock block? Engine damage isn't always an all-or-nothing affair. Sometime pistons, ringlands, etc., get damaged over time/cumulatively. Good that you saw the problem quickly.

 

That was on in tank meth. Stock block. Haven't checked compression yet but engine seems 100% OK, not burning any oil, misfiring, down on power, no blow-by, etc...

This is the kind of stuff that makes me want to get a built motor though (for insurance if nothing else). I'm already plotting things on those fronts...

 

May be a good time to do a compression/leakdown. Heck, I try to do them on the regular anyways. Most of us ask a lot of our cars, even if we're "only" fully-bolted K04 on ethanol. Us MT and BT guys on stock block, all the more so...

 

Of course I plan on checking everything out. I'm more worried about figuring out why I lost fuel pressure to begin with honestly. I really need to consider an AEM wideband failsafe.

 

Surprisingly or unsurprisingly, engine compression and spark plugs checked out fine last night.

I need to deal with the GC camber plates...I bought some OE plates to put in there for now (just need to find time to put them in). I have a plan, I think, but will need to swap the plates out to assess the damage first and decide with route to take. Basically, I think the whole bushing/washer system is going to need an overhaul. My ride height in the front has gone down more (haven't measured it but I can just tell), and I'm pretty sure it's not just the springs sagging more. Right now I can't recommend these plates, if they're already damaged/broken after 13k miles. When I push down on the driver's side shock tower, there's an audible "CLICK" I can feel in my hands coming from the camber plate. Something is wrong.

Bilstein is back to being unresponsive. Time to call incessantly and find out where the hell my rear shocks are.

 

You on the Koni/GC coilovers combo? If so, what's the springrate you chose? Do you recommend the kit? (besides the camber plates, of course)

Edit: I'm an idiot that forgot all of the previous stuff in this thread. NVM, LOL

Suspension is a bit of a black art to me. I'm wanting a stiffer setup and was considering going w/ 400 lbs/in GC coils front and back. I'd just modify my front Koni Yellows for fitment and leave my Bilstein B8s as-is in the back. I run the JBR125 RSB, so I wouldn't have stiffer spring rates in the back for the purpose of roll-axis stiffness; I'm already covered. Then again, on a 62/38 weight distribution car, maybe I should run 450/400 or 400/350 to try to get similar ride frequency. I need to read more/talk to some vendors.

 

If you're considering the AEM failsafe, I have one sitting around in the garage that I haven't gotten around to. Also have a spare engine should you need one.

 

Appreciate the offer. I'll probably try to buy my own spare engine in the future so I have something ready to go just in case. Also then I can assemble it or have it assembled with whatever forged/upgraded components I want.

My autotechs were pretty seized when I removed them last night, that's probably the source of the fuel pressure drop. Will update as details are available. For now I put the stock ones in.

Also, my eibach helper springs and 2.5" spacers were totally gone when we jacked up my car last night. Obviously they broke and fell off the vehicle. Pretty disappointed there. Those weren't cheap. I'll have to get some replacements lined up for when I put the stock top hats back in, which is definitely happening, at least temporarily, since the passenger side also has lateral play in it now, similar to that on the driver's side. I don't know what the problem is, but it seems isolated to the camber plate, as the whole wheel/hub/strut/rod move as one unit.

 

Since you mentioned having to go back to stock strut mounts in the other thread, I thought I'd drop this here. You may have already seen it, but it's supposedly a better-engineered and less-expensive solution. Of course, if you're reverting back to other mounts soon, it's a non-issue. But this is something I'd personally consider if I needed replacements again. 10-years more development time FTW:

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/for...ts-struts-mounts-bearings-202478/#post3059046

You can get them stupid cheap here: http://www.discountfordpartsfromsoundford.net/

 

Many things have happened since I last updated the thread. Too many to recount, and many under rushed circumstances, so very little documentation took place.

-The front Bilsteins developed excessive free play between the shock and the shock body. They will need to be sent out for repair.
-The Bilstein rears came back after three months of being in California and were broken (would not compress more than one inch) and will require repair and are currently back in CA.
-The camber plates were only partially damaged and will probably be salvageable, however I will probably use a washer to tighten up the bushings because GC's design doesn't compensate for bushing wear. The spring dividers combined with the camber plate lip ended up being too tall relative to the helper spring and jammed into the camber plate.




-The autotech internals ended up being seized and were replaced with new ones. No more leaning out or drops in pressure. The last time I took a vdyno of an updated methanol map whilst on a road trip back from VA last week, it landed me in the 370 whp vicinity which is probably nearing the limit of that mix. (Ignore the squiggley lines at tip-in, I was messing with CL-OL transitions and use better values now). WHP might be a little higher because I was going noticeably uphill while taking the log. I still want to do an E33 map again sometime since that was giving me good results for the short time I ran it. All I know is, the car feels truly powerful on this ITM map. Probably the best I have ever gotten out of it.



-Stock Koni yellows are now installed and set on "full stiff" on all four corners. OEM top hats and bump stops were used in the front. The car is grossly underdamped on the compression side, particularly in the front, and slightly underdamped on the rebound side in both the front and the rear. Overall I'm pretty unhappy with how the car handles with these shocks, although I admit that my application (non-stock springs) is probably skewing my results. On the plus side, they are very comfortable on relatively smooth surfaces. On the negative side, big impacts are a problem, as the fronts bottom out on pretty much everything I roll over that resembles a bump.

I took the car to the track at midwest meet and overall it felt decent, just lost maybe 10-20% grip in the front going from the Bils to the Koni's and also encountered some problems with certain medium speed bumps unsettling the car.

The following items were broken at the track:
1) One of my inner tie rods, which has clunked a little bit since I bought the car, is now clunking quite a lot and will need replacement, as I can feel the clicking in the steering wheel.
2) My custom exhaust, which has always been a little loose, melted the right side of my rear bumper cover a decent amount. I will need to find a permanent solution to this to prevent further damage. I will likely have an additional hangar welded onto the Dynomax. The exhaust continues to perform extremely well, sound superb, while having zero drone. Of course, the Dynomax now rattles like a motherfucker.
3) My BNR S3's wastegate actuator arm seems to have seized (I have an early-ish V2 and contacted the previous owner and confirmed it was never fixed) or otherwise isn't opening properly. Spring pressure, with the compressor housing plumbed directly to the wastegate, is now up to a cool 24 psi past 5000 RPM's (log attached) and isn't building boost well down low either. Luckily since I actually use the fuel cut tables, unlike a lot of people, the car began violently cutting out at the track above 5k RPM's and after a pit stop and subsequent basic diagnostics, the issue seems to have been uncovered, so I simply drove at part throttle for the rest of the day.

The track day at midwest meet was a lot of fun and I learned quite a bit about track driving and improved my skills substantially, thanks to having a fantastic volunteer instructor in the car with me all day (7 20 minute sessions, plus ride-alongs!). Earlier in the season, I took an "Evolution Advantage" course (that was the event in Rantoul) that was basically the autocross equivalent of the MWM track day, where an instructor and I hot lapped the car over and over. I picked up two full seconds on a 40 second course with that instructor. So in addition to improving the car, I can say for sure that this season I improved my skills a substantial amount, which is important for me still being very new to performance vehicles and performance driving.

So, the following items are on the agenda, in no particular order:
1) Repair and update GC camber plates, drill out shock towers
2) Get front Bilsteins repaired and put all Bilsteins back on the car
3) Replace inner tie rod
4) Add front camber and get an alignment, or learn to align using the string method
5) Get an exhaust shop to fix the exhaust in place
6) Pull BNR and send to Bryan for repair
7) Replace rear sway bar with an upgraded one that suits the car's needs (TBD)

 

That's a hell of a list man. GL with everything! Great seeing you bro!

 

Dang, man, talk about some bad luck. I know Bilsteins have a top-notch reputation, but honestly seeing what you're going through, I may just revalve the Yellows when the time comes. Sounds like 4/4 have issues? Man, I don't like those odds... Yikes! o.0 And hopefully my lower spring rates will play nice with the OTS Yellows. We'll see.

Just curious: how do you make the determination of being underdamped on jounce and rebound? Is this all butt-shock-dyno sensations, or objective data put into equations?

Also, that sucks about the BNR S3. I have a v1 and have never had any issues at all besides some creep in the cold with a high-flowing setup and being full catless, but my Guardian Angel and extra fueling with my CM10 and 100% methanol keeps everything safe/in-check.

 

Butt dyno combined with experience with a few different setups, both on my car, and others. Honestly tuning the rebound side, and shocks in general, I don't really know anything about. All I can say is that the body isn't controlled properly right now. Part of the problem is that the suspension is over compressing all the time, so the rebound side is being forced to work a lot harder. Here's a few of my issues:

1) Excessive brake dive (front low speed compression)
2) Soft turn-in relative to Bils (front low speed compression)
3) Excessive suspension compression and bottoming out in the front (front high speed compression)
4) Excessive rebound travel and oscillation in the rear, to a lesser extent, front as well (rebound) - for example, hit a bump, rear swings up after hitting the bump, then settles, or in severe cases, compresses again.

 

Makes sense. "No replacement for seat time," right? The folks who did my Ground Controls yesterday are REALLY wanting me to get it on the track. They said all that I'm doing (trying to match frequencies, consider motion ratios, etc.) is great, but no replacement for seat time, especially with a highly experienced co/instructor driver.

We have a national champion down here (forget which class) who generally charges like a grand per day (supposedly worth every penny - he's highly sought out and an expert driver). My buddies at Texas Track Works (TTW) know him well personally and may be able to hook me up with this world-class guy to help me learn to use my Speed with its current setup, and how to know if/what needs changed to suit my driving style and/or handling dynamics. Pro-bono or just track fees may be an option *fingers crossed*

TTW is tracking every single weekend, and providing track support for various customers with DD'ers ranging all the way to stipped/caged race cars. They know suspension/brakes/competition driving, in general, like the back of their hands. They're begging me to get some seat time, especially before making any further suspension changes, LOL.

 

You may have already done this, or maybe not but either way....
Did you torque your suspension bushings while loaded?
Also have you checked tire Temps for proper camber?

I had some of those issues with my KW v3's even after setting the compression/rebound a couple of times. I was running too much negative camber in the beginning and was getting some camber spring (don't remember of that's the exact name). Also on my initial install I torqued all the bushings down but ended up raising the car a good inch. That inch in height change was twisting the bushing and making everything seem extra bouncy.

If you're not sure, it might be worth the time to put the car on some ramps. Loosen the bushings, make your car bounce like horny teenagers getting it on, and then retorque.

 

The kit was professionally installed at a tracking/competitive-racing-focused shop that has a sterling reputation in our area (Texas Track Works). I've had my Speed over there several times and can't say enough good things about them. I trust they did the install perfectly, both in terms of doing the proper procedures with unloaded or loaded suspension, and just a general trust in all that they do.

It was also founded by TCU grads, who bleed purple, like me. GO FROGS!!! (earned my undergrad there)

When I go in for the follow-up alignment after the springs settle, I'll raise the concerns you mentioned, just in that rare 1% chance case.

In related news, my car feels SOOOOO much better at 385/380 with the extra spring rate! I don't get nearly as much squat, so I'm hooking better, even in 2nd! And I don't get nearly as much squirm/torquesteer either (full engine mounts helped that a lot too, but this added a good deal more stability).

 

Torque your suspension bushings while loaded...that's an interesting one. I'm having trouble figuring out how any of your suspension bushings got loosened in the first place just to install a set of coilovers, other than the one that's in the lower control arm in the rear that you take off to put the springs in, and I doubt that would have any meaningful impact on the ride. My bushings are all in fine shape as far as I can tell. The front control arms spring back the way they're supposed to and behave the same on both sides. I have thought about upgrading the bushings, but a couple local autocrossers have had longevity issues with one of our only real viable options (Whiteline).

I haven't checked tire temps yet because I have yet to run more than factory camber. Even when I had the GC camber plates on, they were set at the factory position. I know my car will need more camber and will cross that bridge when I come to it.

I'm not surprised the KW's feel bouncy honestly considering the spring rates aren't set up to achieve flat ride.

@Redline I don't mind talking about your setup, but would prefer to talk about it in your thread to keep things organized.