let`s take control of the SWAS

Discussion in 'Mazdaspeed 3 General Discussion' started by VoodooJef, Apr 22, 2017.

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  1. Cfoldone

    Cfoldone Platinum Member

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    Thank You for bringing this up, I again looked like a idiot making a stop/turn and face-plant engine cutout / recover a couple of days ago.

    The use of a variable resistor pot will cause a fault. The variable pot will reduce the voltage but that is not what the logic uses to define
    steering shaft movement. The logic has a high or digital value =1 of 4.00 - 4.75 volts, low = 0 of 0.25 -0.75 volts. Think of a reading that
    has the minimum and maximum values that define the logic states of 0 or 1. If input voltages are outside of those voltage values per logic
    rules.... That is a undefined state ie.... a fault in the ability to read a logic 0 or 1. Then the logic will create fault condition thinking a bad steering sensor, connection, wire. The correct signals also have phase (timing) in relation to difference between terminals ACED which
    defines the direction, speed of the steering shaft turning movement.
    Now the pot could of course be adjusted to create any voltage to one of terminals ACED to cause a fault. Same as a switch.
    Would that fault code be different then current practice of a switch between terminal A (light blue) that is my question.
    CAN bus users (modules ask, watch for data) see the general fault code broadcast would cause all modules to ignore the bad data, some kind of spoofing of the data stream would be needed to allow only one or other modules to ignore the fault.
    The variable resistor pot would likely do same switch modification result, unless the voltage causes some undefined ECU condition.
    The switch method appears to have no lasting drastic effects?

    Feed back from current users of the switch option?
     
  2. SharksInSpace

    SharksInSpace Planets and shit. Silver Member

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    I've since inherited Jef's car and the switch that he installed has given me zero issues. The only trick is that I sometimes forget to flip it before a hoon until I hit cut and faceplant, but that's obviously user error. I've not had any problems with it failing or reading an incorrect open/closed position to activate/deactivate SWAS without intent. Based on my experience, it's definitely a viable long-term solution.
     
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  3. Mauro_Penguin

    Mauro_Penguin Punk in Drublic. #BlackLivesMatter Motorhead Platinum Member

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    I'll throw in my experience since MSF is dead.

    I have a kill switch for the ground wire on the steering wheel angle sensor. It's effective for quick datalogging. The issue is that disabling the ground (or any other SWAS wire IIRC) causes no power steering assist, and the obvious dash dummy lights which is just aesthetics.

    The power steering issue kills me, I fucking hate it. I do sometimes remember to hold the DSC switch down for 30 seconds to kill SWAS that way, and that obviously works much better.

    My issue is that like many, I tailored my Pu to be a turn key fun car. There are times I just jump in and drive, I will completely forget about SWAS until I hit these 2 turns outside my apt complex (amongst others). These turns really fuck with SWAS. Even with 1/3 throttle at 35-40mph the engine starts bucking like crazy and I can watch boost spike a bit on my AP. This is a big concern to me for turbo and engine longevity.

    So....

    Has anyone (now as of 2020) found any other way of disabling SWAS besides a ground kill switch, or holding down the DSC button for 30 seconds?
     
    Mauro_Penguin, via a mobile device, Sep 13, 2020
    #23
  4. SharksInSpace

    SharksInSpace Planets and shit. Silver Member

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    No power steering is the main reason I usually leave it alone for just regular driving purposes. The dash lights are also annoying but not a huge deal, but no ps is rough. God it sucks when you forget that SWAS still on and faceplant the wheel, though.

    Does holding DSC really properly kill it in a genpu? I came over from juan life and that wasn't a thing for us; I just unplugged it under the dash lol.
     
  5. ToyCop

    ToyCop Greenie Member

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    I mist drive too slow. I have yet to encounter the engine cutout from this. I guess I need to try harder.
     
  6. Mauro_Penguin

    Mauro_Penguin Punk in Drublic. #BlackLivesMatter Motorhead Platinum Member

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    The lack of power steering can sometimes feel dangerous, especially when pulling into a parking spot. Thats the big deal for me.

    Holding the DSC button down for 30 seconds does completely disable SWAS, but you have to do it everytime you start the car. On MSF there was discussion about it not affecting the other grannies, but SWAS was the goal. You'll know you did it right because if you preas the DSC button afterward, the light will remain lit on the dash.

    The botched behavior doesnt happen all the time. Just under certain turns/throttle/boost. At my previous job I would notice it when making a right turn out of the parking area and into traffic. SWAS would reduce boost and kill power, essentially leaving you almost helpless and in my case in the line of traffic. At my current residence there are some twisty roads before getting to my neighborhood. As I roll out of traffic and onto the local street, I can be in 2nd or 3rd doing about 40mph as I turn. As soon as I go to give it gas past the apex of the turn, thats when the car starts bucking. It'll violently kick about 4 times if I dont let off the gas, you can hear the turbo wind up back and fourth as it kicks. I have to completely get off the throttle for a second, before I can get back on it.

    It really wasnt noticeable with the insta-boost-k04 since I would drive in lower RPM's, but with the BNRs4 I drive in higher RPM's and it kicks hard.
     
    Mauro_Penguin, via a mobile device, Sep 13, 2020
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  7. SharksInSpace

    SharksInSpace Planets and shit. Silver Member

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    YEP. At best it's an annoyance, but at worst it is a safety hazard if you forget your power steering is disabled and aren't prepared to have to Hulk the wheel

    Cool; I'd prefer to kill only SWAS and not power steering, so that's good to know!
     
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  8. jsmith

    jsmith Silver Member

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    So what I am hearing is we need something on the CANbus to give that disable DSC message automatically each and every start up?
     
  9. Ssinstaller

    Ssinstaller Gold Member

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    If holding the dsc button for 30 seconds disables the sensor, why not just install a trigger module like the pac tr7 or tr12 to do it for you every time you start the car.

    I've had one turning off my DSC in the 6 for years.
     
    Ssinstaller, via a mobile device, Sep 13, 2020
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  10. jsmith

    jsmith Silver Member

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    ...go on...
     
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  11. Ssinstaller

    Ssinstaller Gold Member

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    https://catalog.pac-audio.com/catalog/specialty-items/tr7

    Wire and program for option 12. You turn on the ignition, it'll output a negative trigger for whatever duration you program. That's all you need to simulate pressing the button.

    The tr12 is the same, you just pay more for much easier programming via pc.
     
    Ssinstaller, via a mobile device, Sep 13, 2020
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  12. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Platinum Member

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    Holding the button to disable only works in later PUs. Mauro is this with traction control off? What you are describing is what I experience when I forget to turn off traction control
     
    Easter Bunny, via a mobile device, Sep 14, 2020
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  13. Mauro_Penguin

    Mauro_Penguin Punk in Drublic. #BlackLivesMatter Motorhead Platinum Member

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    My Pu was manufactured April 2012, I vaguely remember something about early Pu's having different programming but I cant remember what was documented on MSF.

    This is all SWAS though. Our cars do have ABS based traction control, Throttle based traction control, and the glorious boost and fuel cuts. Of them all fuel cut is what feels the most violent.

    @Easter Bunny Your Pu is a 2010? What exactly do you do to disable any/all of the grannies on your car?
     
    Mauro_Penguin, via a mobile device, Sep 14, 2020
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  14. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Platinum Member

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    I have a 2010 which I bought labor day 2009. It was the first 2010 Mazdaspeed they the dealer had gotten so it old.

    The only control that I have is the traction control button on or off holding it holding it while starting don't change the behavior.

    All that it controls is the traction control and it mostly does it with the throttle. I have turned it off every time I have driven the car after like the third month of ownership because it's too aggressive and nearly got me tboned crossing a street with zero power

    Swas on the occasion that I feel it kick in is again throttle and just makes the pedal feel like it's disconnected I am pretty stock though
     
    Easter Bunny, via a mobile device, Sep 14, 2020
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  15. Mr.Gregg

    Mr.Gregg Silver Member

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    Do you know if it just disables SWAS or does it affect anything else? Will power steering and ABS still be functional?
     
    Mr.Gregg, via a mobile device, Oct 5, 2020
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  16. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Platinum Member

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    I have no idea as stated above my car does not have this functionality
     
    Easter Bunny, via a mobile device, Oct 5, 2020
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  17. Awafrican

    Awafrican Moderator Silver Member

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    Traction control also disables
     
    Awafrican, via a mobile device, Oct 5, 2020
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  18. Mr.Gregg

    Mr.Gregg Silver Member

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    Ah okay, that's not so bad, TC can be super annoying so I turn it off frequently anyways.


    My gen Pu was also made in April 2012, holding the button down for ~10 seconds does turn on the warning light and prevent it from turning off until I fully shut off the car. So hopefully SWAS is disabled but probably won't know until next year
     
    Mr.Gregg, via a mobile device, Oct 5, 2020
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