Log of work on MS6

Discussion in 'Mazdaspeed 6 General Discussion' started by aviator79, Sep 27, 2021.

4 users.
  1. aviator79

    aviator79 Silver Member

    Apr 14, 2021
    Trophy Points:
    +21 / -0
    Bought my MS6 in 2006 with 700mi on it. Now at 127k.

    TLDR: this is just a thread on me fixing my car.

    Been around but off the forums for a while now and most here now probably dont know me. Not noob just been away so long going to take a while to remember everything. So posting thread as I will have questions and allow you all to bash me. But mainly want thread as find it is best way track what I have done. Will will try post pics and links as I go to help others.

    Anyways...my car has been neglected for years now as was always working on ex wife's car. So finally going to take the time to get MS6 back into shape.

    Car currently runs but not great and being it is now my DD (though WFH so not driving much) I wont be able to address all the issue at once.

    Car used to drive fine last year so think it is boost leak but could be fuel or spark IDK yet. I know I sound like an idiot but have not done any logs/check anything with DH/AP (yes I have a Dashhawk!).

    Plan is/was to pull engine to replace clutch and FW. I already bought OEM LUK 10-064 clutch and suspect will go with Fidenza 161071 FW and the dual mass FW is more issue than clutch (can feel it clunking). And DMF 118 DM FW cost 2x as much. I have replaced ~4 MS6 engines and feel this will be easier than pulling trans and allow me to address any other seal issues that need replacing. But for now that is on hold. I will be fixing another car to allow me to have a spare and pull engine in MS6 in the future.

    Car does not run great: it acts like has a major boost leak but maybe my HPFP went. Im probably only one still running Mrlilguy HPFP and it just may have worn out. Car will accelerate smoothly by barely increasing throttle. No WOT. So first will check for boost leak and suspect will find one. Garage is a mess so have not had a chance to check using compressor but will try tomorrow.

    The issues started last year on a road trip to PA where car would buck if tried to accelerate and make clicking noise which I thought might be boost solenoid. So I also need to check lines to EBCS/Mac solenoid as maybe it has failed. I did have a bike and 2 kayaks above car so felt any small issues were likely being exacerbated due to added drag. Wasn't trying to go fast but felt like plug gap issues so replace plugs but no change (gaps were fine). Just ended up driving another car for past year.

    First project involves:
    • Replace belt, tensioner (idler seemed ok so reinstalled (Thread on tensioner/idler pulley/belt parts)).
    • Oil change (17mm drain bolt, 7 quarts with Balance Shaft removed, filter tool)
    • Top off PTO/trans/Tcase as needed (will change fluids when do clutch but worry with all the leaks maybe some low (Amsoil in all but old).
    • Replace inner/outer tie rods (cant get alignment as bolts for tierod seized).
    • Replace front swaybar end links (not doing yet as have done many times and likely need to cut off and ones on there seem fine and think are OEMs and not sure want to use the MOOGs)
    • Boost leak test.
    • Check plugs and ignition coils (just replaced plugs when issues started last year, but forgot to install coil bolts and IDK how car was running but possible fuked up coils since they were literally not in contact with spark plugs). Will stretch clean and spring as maybe issue. (Is MS3 Gen2 different PN? (MS6: L3G218100B9U).
    • replace intake filter (K&N RU-4990) (Not sure what JBR uses as says oil-less but OOS and this one will fit).
    • Fix starter wire again (likely remove TT FMM to gain access as very hard to do from top and then may leave off and replace RMM given it is 10 years old).
    • Compression check.
    • Replace bumper cover clips. Broke bolt trying to replace PS so have to remove...
    • Install new cleaned injectors
    • Clean wheel studs/replace lugs (While taking front PS wheel off a couple of the lugs "cought up" so will have to clean stud threads and use old/get new lugs (Using RAYS 35MM 12X1.50)
    • Once sorted plug in EGR to pass emissions as overdue by 2 years (Already have one not ready code for emissions...that will be another project).
    • Get alignment (Firestone lifetime alignment really pays for itself when own car 10 years however they will not touch my SPC BJs).
    • Replace RMM...

    Other issues would be normal PCV crap. I always get build up in my OCC lines partly due to winters and water vapor freezing. Will have to pull IM and see. I may try to weld baffle on VC (as gen1) and get the CFM filter.
    Thread on valve cover breather
    Video on CFM VCB w/gen2 VC

    Other thoughts:
    • Suspension issues...rear springs too soft, want to install stiffer rear springs using phate conversion with BC perches. Front koni need help too.
      (Detroit axle suspension parts mentioned in video maybe?)
    • Rear finder rust. Trunk rust. Clear coat pealing.
    • Fix/finish stereo.
    • Install Aquamist HFS4 and ST intake already bought. l just need to get adapter.
    • More rust proof. I sprayed under carriage if car with LPS3 a few years ago but live in Destin FL and that is why my tie rods sized along with other rust issues. CT roads suck in winter but nothing compared to salt air by living on beach.
    • Replace fuel filter (in tank so IDK when doing this, also maybe replace pump)
    • Install "new" cleaned injectors (Have a spare set still I think).
    • Install upgraded T-case brackets.

    So far:
    Drained oil and either find filter tool or buy one...

    Replaced tensioner with Duralst 305372, reinstalled old idler pully as was fine, May buy a new bearing to replace next time (NTN 6203lax30). Need to install belt (Dayco 5060910). The HF belt tool is a bit too long so wanted to to cut it down a few inches but was able to make it work from the bottom just more of a PITA as if did not hit headlight would have made much easier from top. However new tensioner has a fake bolt that can use vs pulley bolt so we will see.

    I had already bought Moog tie rods 2 years ago when was unable to get alignment so installing them.
    Had to cut outers to be able to use tool (very soft steal so easy).
    Used HF tool w/ 1-7/16 in adapter.
    The Moog flats did not align with OEM safety washer.
    Bent oem best could
    Not sure if you are supposed to install the AM washer and then remove and cut and bend notch into slot like OEM or what as otherwise they are pointless
    Outer tie rods come with a zerk fitting uninstalled and looks like under BJ has pressed in seal looks almost like like a freeze plug. I think all AM ball joints are this way vs oem being solid. But this has hole which is threaded but sealed. So if want can remove sealant and install zerk.
    IDK never had these parts last long enough that greasing them would make difference but Ive more replaced control arms than tie rods...

    Bought 0.051" safety wire to secure boot to rack.
    By boots are ok so reusing, but they are stiff and make not last long. Have an spare rack that may have boots so going to check if those feel any better before installing outer tie rods.
    New boot PN for reference is GJ6A3212X if need new ones. Assume can get AM cheaper.
    video for all front M6 control arms/tie rods/endlinks ect...(same as MS6).

    So to remove bumper cover braket bolt that sheered I will remove headlights as need another polish.

    While out I will replace bulbs with Morimoto D2S 6000K Morimoto XB (TSX projectors).

    Parts bought:
    Duralst 305372

    Bumper bracket:
    Right GJ6A-50-E11C ~$10 dealer
    Left: GJ6A-50-E12C
    Also bought both ebay $10 will see if same as OEM (edit they are not buy oem).

    Moog front suspension/steering parts:
    • Inners (2x):
      (OEM: GJ6E32240)
    • Outer
      (OEM: G26A32290)
      (OEM: G26A32280)
    • Sways
      K80250 $17
      K80251 $17

    0.051" safety wire for boots to rack

    Had to drill out one screw holding center grill
    9YA590602A $1.60 Liberty Mazda but ordered with coils $1.19 shipped

    RAYS W171215B Black (M12 x 1.50 Thread Size) Hex Lock and Nut Set $60 ($76.86-$16 discount as box broke in shipping, AW open box, $95 new)

    Morimoto D2S 6000K Morimoto XB HID Xenon Bulbs (Pair) $60

    K&N RU-4990 3" Air filter $50

    4x coils LF2L-18-100A $254 shipped
    using 20SHIP promo for free shipping (or up to $20 off shipping)

    Other parts may need:
    reverse drill bits

    OEM coil bolts:
    was using ms6 pn:
    L3G2-18-100B-9U which go for $90
    Just found Gen2 pn
    LF2L-18-100A which go for $70

    Any NATOR CT folks on here?
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2021
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  2. aviator79

    aviator79 Silver Member

    Apr 14, 2021
    Trophy Points:
    +21 / -0
    Got belt on.
    Had to remove bolts on PS pump and tilt to get it on.

    So here is the K&N filter. Pretty close to the JBR.
    20211004_170200.jpg 20211004_170208.jpg
    Seems to fit:

    Polished headlights (hard to see i pics but left is polished)
    They were not terrible so just used Menzerna P091E w/ orange pad then FF3000 with blue pad. Finished with Meguiars Headlight Protectant.

    Replaced D2S bulbs. Most may not notice that projectors vibrate as OEM projectors cutoff is non existent. With TSX projector retrofit the vibration at idle is terrible. Another member had said he solved but never said how. I always assumed he just stuck a piece of foam under projector so that is what I did. Used a piece of yoga mat rapped in tinfoil with piece of screen protector glass as worry about temps. We will see how works.

    This is just to show why to buy OEM bumper brackets.
    The bumper brackets (oem right)


    My DS looks like its broken too but hand been holding bumper some how. The PS was not holding bumper at all so that is the only one bought from dealer. But will try the ebay one out on DS to see if works.

    These are the u-bolts that hold headlight in and this is also the one that the bumper bracket bolts into:

    I just removed the U-bolt on PS that had bolt seized and as I cannot find OEM PN so using a generic M6-1.0 u bolt:

    Still have to fix PS headlight bracket that broke
    Going to have to plasticweld nut just not sure what type plastic headlight housing is...

    The moog front stabilizer end links returning

    Rethreaded/cleaned threads on wheel studs. If you do not own a rethred kit get one. Use it all the time
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2021
    aviator79, via a mobile device, Oct 8, 2021
  3. Raider

    Raider Administraider Administrator Platinum Member

    Jan 28, 2016
    Trophy Points:
    Behind a Keyboard wearing full body armor
    +7,008 / -8
    If your bumper won't stay flush, a standard quik-latch.com QL-25 mini works. There is a how to on it too.
    Raider, via an iPhone, Oct 8, 2021
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  4. Awafrican

    Awafrican Moderator Gold Member

    Feb 11, 2016
    Trophy Points:
    +1,884 / -8
    Quick latch for the win
    Awafrican, via a mobile device, Oct 8, 2021
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  5. aviator79

    aviator79 Silver Member

    Apr 14, 2021
    Trophy Points:
    +21 / -0
    We will see if bumper ever goes back on...
    OMG long post....TLDR bad compression on #4. Ring stuck or its cracked and engine fucked...

    So compression test was not good.
    First cylinder tested was #4 and only went to 150. Using solid pipe with gage, not a hose. But still maybe gage was off... so did rest. Close to 180s on #1-#3. Went back to #4 and was like 50 or less idk was low AF. Thought maybe not sealing in plug hole but got pretty frustrated as figured engine fuked so got prices on new engine cause cheaper than a new car...but $4k into this car just hard to make sense even with car market.

    Talking to my Nator CT group and mentioned maybe try ATF to see if ring stuck being.

    How compression dropped to under 50 after getting 150 first time it is weird...
    Saw this thread
    Now maybe its fucked but maybe its just stuck ring so why not try...maybe a valve but doubt it....but idk as didn't try more diagnostics.
    I think this could be possible because...well I drive it slow because not tuned. Figured no WOT should be ok until get tuned. This went on for 10 years...I only did MAF cal for intake and got things good and then never had time to do more. Yes idiot but figured drive slow keep in "passive" mode be ok and was for many years...just figure best to be honest and ready to be bashed...I can swap engines...I do not know how to tune and barely know how to do a log. Had always planned to bring car to someone to do it but life got in way...
    Anyways will do more diagnostics like leak down but said fuk it and decided to soak pistons in B12. Sort of wanted to drain oil as new but whatever. Just decided to pour it in. And didn't just drain right past piston. After 6hr it is empty so added more to #4. Added a little to all cylinders but filled #4 to spark plug. Piston was above middle stroke. Probably less than 8oz filled it. Anyways all cylinder drained but only a few oz in #1-#3 just to cover pistons.
    So ya just dded more to #4 and will keep adding to try for 24hr soak.
    I've read about using MMO, ATF, ATF mixed with acetone and other stuff but b12 was best when I cleaned valves on other ms6/3/cx7 engines and at $3/bottle its cheap.
    Also read about running engine with B12 in oil so figure stuff that leaks into oil will be ok to run engine with it in oil breifly then will drain and flush. Also read about using compressed air to force thru piston rings...but going to take one step at a time and check compression as I go to see if anything changes. If it is stuck rings may need to get hot to fix.
    Will put #4 at TDC on compression stroke and do leak down test if comoression test dont change to see where air coming from and maybe pull IM if seems like intake valve issue..pulling turbo mani obviously PITA. I will probably pull engine if things don't get better but idk how to rebuild engine. Most I've done is swap heads (on b7 a4 audi) and before that just full long block swaps.
    Side note:
    Every ms6 engine I've done leak down test on has failed (but they were not in car) Brand new engines...so I posted long ago about is it that vvt goes to full retard rather than 0°. Was told goes to 0° so leak down should have worked but never did. Idk maybe was doing wrong but i know I wasn't. And engines ended up perfectl compreassion when installed. So I've always been weary of leak down test. Now this engine is installed so different but still may just rely on blowing air into cylinder thru spark plug hole and see where leaking vs actual reading on leak down.
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021 at 3:55 AM
    aviator79, via a mobile device, Oct 12, 2021 at 2:11 AM
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  6. Cfoldone

    Cfoldone Silver Member

    Mar 2, 2020
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    +113 / -1
    A good way to rule out valve partial open (vvt) resulting in low compression. Check valve lash. Great thing is verification of good lash means if you continue and do pull engine/head as you sadly find more wrong. Not a wasted step. Since once pulling apart the valve buckets are if needed for replacement because of loose / tight clearances..one step done.
    Cfoldone, via a mobile device, Oct 12, 2021 at 10:55 AM
  7. aviator79

    aviator79 Silver Member

    Apr 14, 2021
    Trophy Points:
    +21 / -0
    Well that is the last thing want to deal with right now TBH.
    After B12 and ATF soak still 50PSI.
    Then tried blowing 40psi air into cylinder at TDC (tried both TDC as idk if on compression stroke) but with neighbor mowing lawn can't hear or see using lighter flame if intake or exhaust valve leaking or if coming pair coming out oil dipstick/fill. Going to try again at 80psi. But thinking I should pull IM. As well as being able to see intake valves maybe its injector seal issue...I mean im grasping at straws at this point but be silly not to check injector.
  8. aviator79

    aviator79 Silver Member

    Apr 14, 2021
    Trophy Points:
    +21 / -0
    Nope you cannot check leakdown on this engine. This is what I concluded 10 years ago and after trying many things same conclusion. The VVT overlap must not be 0 at rest. Even at the 30°? Max retard idk if this makes sense. But every engine, new/old I've tried this on end up with same issues.

    At TDC on #4 I send air into cylinder and get air out #2 and #3 spark plug. Rotate forward until no air out of #123 spark and get air out of exhaust. Can't be done. Checked for air out of oil cap and coolant but nothing and no point as all valves never fully seal on an engine with timing chain installed as far as I can tell. No one has ever agreed with me on this but that is always what I find.

    None of this explains low compression so still feel I have issue...but I cannot confirm rings/piston unless pull cams...so either button it up and run or pull IM. I am pretty sure injector seals fine. Pulling IM will allow me to look at intake valves and fix starter wire. But think going to run it first...so that is plan.
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021 at 10:12 PM
    aviator79, via a mobile device, Oct 15, 2021 at 10:06 PM

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