Road racing setup help

Discussion in 'Mazdaspeed 3 General Discussion' started by gotovato, Jun 4, 2018.

Watchers:
10 users.
  1. Mauro_Penguin

    Mauro_Penguin Punk in Drublic Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Posts:
    659
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Jacksonville, FL
    Ratings:
    +659 / -1
    I got Mattyhawks old setup last month. It's Focus ST inner tie rods and a bumpsteer/outer tie rod kit from Steeda. (Spacer required for the inner toe rod)

    @phate I've watched your video, love all your stuff. I just didn't want to the math because at first I wasn't sure if I was going to notice any change. (Originally thought I had a sway bar issue). I couldn't measure anything well the way I had it, because the camber change at compression and rebound was throwing off my control height laser marking. Your way looks better and is what I will use when I revisit it in a few weeks. Hence why I just eyeballed it in the end.
     
    Mauro_Penguin, via a mobile device, Jun 12, 2018
    #41
  2. phate

    phate Motorhead

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Posts:
    149
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Auburn Hills, MI
    Ratings:
    +372 / -0
    The problem with projecting onto a wall or on the ground is that it doesn't account for change in track width (scrub) through the vertical range of the wheel assembly. Using the laser line and mirror trick eliminates that issue :)
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 12, 2018 ---
    Bump steer is purely a function of the suspension geometry. If you look at the top view plane of the suspension steering geometry with a specific steering angle, you'll see that it's just a 4 bar linkage like most everything else in the suspension. subframe, LCA, knuckle, and tie rod. The lengths of the subframe and knuckle are static in the top view - the LCA and tie rod are not. The horizontal length of both the tie rod and LCA change throughout vertical motion of the wheel assembly - and that change relative to each other is what causes the knuckle to rotate.

    Remember that everything travels in arcs - you cannot eliminate bump steer unless you redesign the entire front suspension. What you can do is move the unwanted behavior to a different part of the range. Alternatively, you opt to not operate in the "bad" part of the range.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
  3. AYOUSTIN

    AYOUSTIN Silver Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Posts:
    688
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Lisle IL/Big Rapids MI
    Ratings:
    +948 / -1
    QFT
     
  4. gotovato

    gotovato Greenie Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    Posts:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    toronto ontario canada
    Ratings:
    +31 / -0
    thanks all for the wealth of knowledge. i guess first step is to try and get that whiteline kit installed, then play with alignment. im fortunate to have access to a shop thatll align my car however i want and can make tweaks and adjustments along the way till i find what works best for my car
     
  5. gotovato

    gotovato Greenie Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    Posts:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    toronto ontario canada
    Ratings:
    +31 / -0
    hey all, so my car will be getting an alignment today as my corksport camber plates have just been installed. Are there any specs youd recommend for me to use? i see mention of 1/16" of toe often, but should i be going with toe in, or toe out? any other advice regarding alignment right now would be great, Thanks!
     
  6. CorkSport - Derrick

    CorkSport - Derrick Approved Vendor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Posts:
    504
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    Ratings:
    +676 / -0
    For track use it will be toe out. I would run camber ~3 degree and 1/32 to 1/16 toe out on the front. On the rear if you have adjustable arms for toe I would run as high as 1/4 which will make the car loose but it will really help get the car rotated.

    Before people comment on that much toe out I have run as high as 1/2 on our road race car which is really really loose but necessary on some tracks and feedback from the driver.

    -Derrick
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. gotovato

    gotovato Greenie Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    Posts:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    toronto ontario canada
    Ratings:
    +31 / -0
    Hey thanks for the info. i was planning to run around ~3 degrees of camber just wasnt sure on toe but 1/16 out sounds good. for now i dont have aftermarket adjustments for the rear.
     
  8. gotovato

    gotovato Greenie Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    Posts:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    toronto ontario canada
    Ratings:
    +31 / -0
    Another question here, what are you guys liking for brake fluid and engine oil? im just curious if the expensive racing oils are worth it or not? i typically use redline 5w40 for my street oil and on track, but recently tried millers racing oil and it seems to hold up pretty well but it is not cheap and i dump it pretty often(3500KM on the street or after every event). Whats everyone using?
     
  9. Code Monkey

    Code Monkey Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Posts:
    157
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Bryan, TX
    Ratings:
    +163 / -0
    Castrol SRF for serious road racing duty; don't even bother with Motul 600/660.

    I change oil every three hpde weekends; you want one with HTHS ideally 3.5 or more.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. gotovato

    gotovato Greenie Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    Posts:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    toronto ontario canada
    Ratings:
    +31 / -0
    ok i currently have stoptech 660 fluid as of now, seems to be ok but i dont really do a full flush that often so if the expense of the SRF is worth it i may switch to that. in terms of oil, are the expensive racing oils worth while ? the redline i use has an HTHS of 4.4 so i guess thats pretty solid. i was told by a shop to dump it after every event but i felt that was maybe too soon
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 6, 2018 ---
    also, do you think a 40wt is acceptable? or is there reason to jump up to a 50wt?
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
  11. CorkSport - Derrick

    CorkSport - Derrick Approved Vendor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Posts:
    504
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    Ratings:
    +676 / -0
    It depends on how bad you are cooking the brakes. On my Spec Miata I change the fluid out every 3-4 race weekends. On the Mazda 3 T4 car it is every race weekend from the calipers burning and needed to be replaced.

    -Derrick
     
  12. gotovato

    gotovato Greenie Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    Posts:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    toronto ontario canada
    Ratings:
    +31 / -0
    Perfect thanks for the input! so far i havent really had any issue cooking brakes but as i start pushing harder this may become and issue. Ill pay attention for the signs of cooked fluid
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. gotovato

    gotovato Greenie Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    Posts:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    toronto ontario canada
    Ratings:
    +31 / -0
    went to the track this weekend with my newly installed corksport camber plates, and some SS brake lines up front, and a new tune from nishan. felt like a different car. it was great. Few things i noticed though, i think i may have cooked my brake fluid. my nice firm pedal has gotten a bit soft almost like theres air in the line, this was after a 20 minute session of hot laps, and i was pushing the braking zones as far as i could. Next thing is coolant temp, my mistake for not paying attention but i let it get up to 230f although that was only peak and it dropped back to the 221f it hangs out at. @Code Monkey i read your big thread about mazdaspeed 6 for road racing, i noticed you did do some ducting work at some point for the radiator, what material did you use? im thinking i can seal my FMIC and radiator forcing more air into the radiator using corrugated plastic?
     
  14. Code Monkey

    Code Monkey Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Posts:
    157
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Bryan, TX
    Ratings:
    +163 / -0
    On the sides, between the radiator and the plastic radiator support frame, I just used some foam I had lying around and Gorilla tape. The side pieces that are in the grill and divert the air to the radiator, I had my shop do them, I think they are some thin aluminum sheets, you can cut them to shape with regular scissors.

    Also, for coolant, I run 1/2 of water wetter, a quart of 50/50 coolant mix, and fill the rest with distilled water.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. gotovato

    gotovato Greenie Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    Posts:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    toronto ontario canada
    Ratings:
    +31 / -0
    ok thanks for the input. im thinking due to my own limitations that corrugated plastic, gorilla tape, and maybe zipties will have to do for some basic ducting along the sides of fmic and radiator, help funnel air through the fmic, and through the radiator instead of it escaping. for coolant, i will try the suggested mix. a few degrees lower will be nice, even if i can shave 10-15 degrees off i will feel more comfortable. As for my softer brake peddle feeling after this track day, is it safe to assume brake fluid is cooked?
     
  16. Code Monkey

    Code Monkey Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Posts:
    157
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Bryan, TX
    Ratings:
    +163 / -0
    On the MS6, the radiator fan comes on at 217, if you are seeing 230 at the track I would investigate further. I think I saw a max of 219-221? A simple check is to park the car and keep the rpms at 3000-4000 for a few minutes, once the radiator fan kicks in stay on the gas pedal and see if the coolant temps go down to 217 or whatever the number is for the MS3. If the temp keeps climbing up, you most likely do not have enough coolant in the system or have air in the system.

    Are you still on stock calipers? Get some temp strips on the calipers and see how hot they get. Are you on Castrol SRF?
     
  17. gotovato

    gotovato Greenie Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    Posts:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    toronto ontario canada
    Ratings:
    +31 / -0
    so my coolant temp spiked 230 as i saw that being the max value held in accessport, running temps while hot lapping are usually 221, and drop down to 212 or so during cool down. i am still on OEM radiator and OEM coolant so a good flush will probably make a difference.

    as for calipers im on stock MS3 calipers with stoptech 660 fluid, and SS lines front, soon to install SS lines for rear as well. fluid has been in the car for a while now so its possible its just old ? is the jump to SRF worth the cost?
     
  18. Code Monkey

    Code Monkey Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Posts:
    157
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Bryan, TX
    Ratings:
    +163 / -0
    Yes. :)
     
  19. gotovato

    gotovato Greenie Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    Posts:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    toronto ontario canada
    Ratings:
    +31 / -0
    ok based on the specs i see it really is top level stuff. Curious on what you would recommend for pads? i see you went through a serious amount of different pads. currently been using only hawk HP + as for the price they seem to work really well. maybe just a fluid upgrade and ill be good enough ? would really like to brake later as that is one of my biggest struggles im finding and thats what the instructor mentioned
     
  20. Code Monkey

    Code Monkey Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Posts:
    157
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Bryan, TX
    Ratings:
    +163 / -0
    What tires are you planning to run?
     
Loading...

Share This Page

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)