What to expect from aftermarket TMIC to Tr8 FMIC

Discussion in 'Mazdaspeed 3 General Discussion' started by TripppleP, May 2, 2020.

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  1. TripppleP

    TripppleP Greenie Member

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    I am going to be installing my Tr8 with CX racing pipes hopefully this week. I'm currently running a CP-e TMIC and am pleased. I have been trying to pay attention to my BATs and it seems the current TMIC hovers around 20-30 degrees over ambient temps. Of course the temps go way up when stopped for prolonged periods like traffic lights or stopping shortly at a store.

    I will find out soon enough what my BATs end up at when I get the FMIC installed and will report back. I'll also report back my perception of the spool delay everyone seems to talk about when going TMIC to FMIC.

    I somewhat made this post as this is a common situation a lot of speed owners go through and it could be a reference in the future.

    So, how did you BAT temps change with a FMIC set-up? Got anything to say?
     
  2. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Platinum Member

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    Unless you spend the time to deal off all of the air gaps and make sure air is going through the intercooler and radiator you will likely see no difference.

    The cpe core is very high quality the tr8 is good but not as god
     
    Easter Bunny, via a mobile device, May 2, 2020
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  3. Solarsurge

    Solarsurge Silver Member

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    Going to FMIC my BATs went down pretty noticeably but lag increased noticeably. I’d definitely go under routed hot pipe and clock the turbo if I did it again. Not only would it have been better, but having a hot pipe cross over top of the engine is a giant pain in the ass whenever you need to take off the valve cover, replace spark plugs, etc. It’s literally ALWAYS in the way. The 90* coupler coming off the turbo (the absolute hottest part of the entire turbo system) being silicone is also extremely prone to wear. I’ve already had to replace mine once because the original one got to a point it started to balloon in boost.


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    Solarsurge, via a mobile device, May 2, 2020
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  4. Mauro_Penguin

    Mauro_Penguin Punk in Drublic. #BlackLivesMatter Motorhead Platinum Member

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    I went from a tr10, back to a TMIC (ETS core).

    With FMIC and aftermarket crashbar... BAT's were about 30* maybe a bit more above ambient. ECT's were about 100* above ambient. They would both oscillate temps depending on speed and engine load.

    With TMIC and OEM front end sealed extra tight... BAT's are 15* above ambient, and ECT's are 85-90* above ambient. Temp control is so stable its stupid.

    This is all highway driving with ambient temperatures between 85-95* in Florida.

    As far as turbo lag, lag was maybe 300rpms or so. The turbo lag was so small it's hard to tell, I'd have to dig up some old logs to verify. Throttle response was a different story. With a FMIC you would feel the turbo slowly reach its efficiency and then away you went. With a TMIC boost is a hair faster but it is much MUCH smoother.

    As far as piping, I had the HTP under engine kit which is great quality. The only problem with it is the piping is always in the way. If you drain your catch can, change oil, do certain suspension work, or even anything with the turbo or exhaust, the fucking pipes are always in the way. A TMIC is always in the way of anything along the top of the engine, but the advantage is you only have 2 couplers to tighten. The FMIC piping had 6 couplers, and any one would leak at random times even with new tbolt clamps and pressurizing the system to verify boost load.

    That's just my experience. If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't waste my time or money with a FMIC whether you are on k04 or a big turbo.
     
    Mauro_Penguin, via a mobile device, May 2, 2020
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  5. Trey

    Trey Silver Member

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    I recently purchased a Whitezilla GV Grille but I keep reading that TMICs might be the way to go for money and performance. I would love to have a beautiful intercooler filling the open mouth of the grille but I keep hearing about the piping, gaps, leaks etc.

    I'm currently running a CS 3.5in, HPFP, AP V3, CS Stage 2 RMM and at 150K miles. I don't plan on upgrading the k04 unless it blows but have had no issues yet. Currently running on PD tune.

    Lastly I'm in Texas so HOT! would the FMIC be more beneficial or the weather? PS, not racing at all, spirited drives on the toll and small bursts around town lol
     
  6. Kohlola_23

    Kohlola_23 Greenie N00B Member

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    Im from the DFW area so I know your pain with the texas heat. Ill say that if you are trying to push your K04 aggressively, you will notice an increase in how the car pulls in the higher end of the rpm range as well as how it pulls after staying in boost longer. I compared my data-logs from my old CPE TMIC vs my TR8 FMIC data-logs and saw that the BATs were about 10-15° cooler while cruising which is nice, but the main benefit is that BATs stayed completely level while I was in boost which is what actually matters. The consistency of a FMIC is significantly better, making it very difficult to heat soak. Im sure you’re experiencing problems with the TMIC heat soaking already. Even with a well designed and nice piece like the CPE unit, theres just not a lot that can be done about placing an intercooler right on top of an engine.

    Comparatively, with my old CPE TMIC, boost temps would start out at a higher temperature and creep up as I stayed in boost. Not good for power especially if you're doing a highway pull in the upper gears like 4th to 6th because it tends to just keep rising.

    Both the TMIC and FMIC have their perks, I would give the win for the TMIC in throttle response for sure, making it better suited for autocross and light street use. If you're going for a big turbo setup and often race your speed or just want the extra power, a FMIC with a good core is the way to go. As for the issues with leaky couplers and stuff, I wouldn’t consider it to be a big problem. Sure if you’re using the CX racing kit, you’re going to have to fine tune your couplers and get them fitted nice because frankly the kit doesn't fit all that well. Just make sure you are using t-bolt clamps and clamping right before tge edge in the pipes so that they cant push themselves off in boost. Its whats going to hold everything together. If you get on top of or in front of the little hump there they will eventually pop off.
     
    Kohlola_23, via an iPhone, Oct 7, 2020
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  7. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Platinum Member

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    Which gen do you have?
     
    Easter Bunny, via a mobile device, Oct 8, 2020
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  8. L337TurboZ

    L337TurboZ Silver Member

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    Im using the CX Racing FMIC but with a Treadstone TR8 core. The pipes and couplers worked perfectly for me. I didn't have to trim or modify much. The TR8 Has different mounting points so I wasnt able to use the upper brackets that came in the CX kit. Instead I used the lower mounting brackets wrapped with felt tape to push the IC against the crash bar. It doesnt shake or move, pretty solid.

    In terms of performance I started with a stock TMIC, then used the CX core with their kit until it got damaged, and finally swapped to a TR8. there is a noticeable difference in BAT temps. As stated above my BAT is stable all the way through a pull. The CX core I noticed on logs the BAT would begin to climb higher as it wasn't properly flowing. There was maybe a slight difference in spool time but mostly negligible. I also don't have heat soak issues as much. In the summer (Charleston, SC) it can get near 100 on a regular basis. My BAT at idle would climb to around 130-150 depending on the time spent at a light. It would drop back down but nowhere near as much as with the TR8 on it.

    There are also differences in core quality. The TR8 has more fins, better welds. It is also a lot nicer looking in the engine bay to have more room above the engine.
     
  9. L337TurboZ

    L337TurboZ Silver Member

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    [​IMG]

    Comparison of the TR8 and CX core
     
    L337TurboZ, via a mobile device, Oct 9, 2020
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  10. mangosmoothie

    mangosmoothie Platinum Member

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    I would get some heat soak in the humid midwest summer that caused kr on my CST4 and ets tmic. Part of it may have been the stock cat and stock intake manifold which makes for a pretty poor flowing setup.

    Never had any issues with the K04.

    Post your results!
     
    mangosmoothie, via a mobile device, Oct 10, 2020
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