Ms3 fuel cut/aftermarket turbo surprise

Discussion in 'Mazdaspeed 3 Troubleshooting' started by Rustyms3, Nov 8, 2020.

Tags:
Watchers:
5 users.
  1. Rustyms3

    Rustyms3 Greenie N00B Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2020
    Posts:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    United states
    Ratings:
    +0 / -0
    So I bought my first gen about 4 months ago knowing it needed some work. I just pulled the transmission to do a clutch and flywheel job. When doing so I noticed an aftermarket turbo. This car has no tune and is bone stock all the way around. Its a mahle 627 TC 20002 000 which is a twinscroll aftermarket replacement turbo. I've been experiencing a fuel cut at 5.5k rpm. I diagnosed it as a fuel octane issue and started being overly careful with the word "premium" at the pump. The issue lessened, but power between 5.5k and redline isnt there. What im trying to figure out here is do I have a turbo that is "over-boosting" my stock ecu? Will I have to buy hpfp internals and get a tune? I didnt plan on modifying this car since this would just be transportation while building my other mazdas.
    Any input is greatly appreciated.
     
    Rustyms3, via a mobile device, Nov 8, 2020
    #1
  2. VashEXE

    VashEXE ButtStallion Tuned Silver Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2016
    Posts:
    395
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Arizona
    Ratings:
    +638 / -3
    You're going to have to get something to monitor. Whether it's an Accessport or a bluetooth obd thing from Amazon, that's the only way you're going to know. You could definitely be overboosting and at a certain point you will be getting fuel cut, but that will feel like you're hitting a brick wall. You're probably getting throttle cut, which you still do not want.

    You should honestly get yourself an accessport and a decent tune. You don't have to go for power or anything crazy, but even just getting the car tuned for your climate/elevation might help with everyday performance and even fuel economy if you tell your tuner that's what you're most interested in. You should also consider hpfp internals if you're getting into it like that and have an aftermarket turbo. I know you say this is just a getting around car, but if that was the case I'm not sure why you're going WOT to redline lol. Don't get me wrong, I get it, but if you're going to be driving hard you should get the basics done so you can monitor and have reliable fueling.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Rustyms3

    Rustyms3 Greenie N00B Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2020
    Posts:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    United states
    Ratings:
    +0 / -0
    I appreciate the input. This is what I was afraid of. I do drive her pretty hard for a getting around car. I have access to a snapon scanner and I'm pretty sure it has a data logging feature. I'll post back my findings when I get the trans put back in. If i do find that my ecu is struggling I dont know if ill go the cobb ap or the versatuner route.
     
    Rustyms3, via a mobile device, Nov 9, 2020
    #3
  4. VashEXE

    VashEXE ButtStallion Tuned Silver Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2016
    Posts:
    395
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Arizona
    Ratings:
    +638 / -3
    Cobb is easier honestly. With VT you'll need a laptop and it also logs slower than Cobb does. If you're just going to have one for monitoring and flashing tunes a used AP is what I'd go with personally.

    It's important to note that this isn't "the ECU struggling". The ECU is just following the rules that have been laid out for it by the tune. You could set your tune to not have any throttle/fuel cut until 50 PSI if you really wanted (don't do this), but this is a safety measure obviously.
     
  5. Rustyms3

    Rustyms3 Greenie N00B Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2020
    Posts:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    United states
    Ratings:
    +0 / -0
    Yea i know just enough to get myself in trouble with the whole ecu thing. I have a little experience since I soldered and tuned my miatas ecu. I dont like the limitations of the cobb since you can't change the tune directly by yourself. Im still doing alot of research on the topic and haven't came to a decision. I'll look around for a used AP and see if I could pick one up cheaper. Really what it comes down to is if I feel comfortable with boosted tuning or not. Since this car has a knock sensor and monitors alot more engine variables than my miata im sure it would be a little easier.
     
    Rustyms3, via a mobile device, Nov 10, 2020
    #5
  6. Awafrican

    Awafrican Moderator Silver Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Posts:
    1,867
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +1,446 / -3
    You can certainly self tune on the Cobb what are you talking about? You just have to do the online course for the basics for Cobb to cover their ass then you get access to access tuner.

    Of course you cannot change a professional tuners tune as they lock it because you're paying them to do the adjustments.
     
    Awafrican, via a mobile device, Nov 10, 2020
    #6
  7. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Posts:
    1,358
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Earth
    Ratings:
    +1,934 / -8
    You have two options

    Swap in a stock turbo and hope that the rest of the car is stock

    Buy a tuning solution and hpfp internals and get a protune

    Option 2 would be a lot less work
     
    Easter Bunny, via a mobile device, Nov 10, 2020
    #7
    • Like Like x 2
  8. The_big_dill

    The_big_dill Greenie Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2020
    Posts:
    142
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Aurora, ON. Canada
    Ratings:
    +49 / -4
    He is talking about the limitations that you have with flash tuning - and he is absolutely right. He is likely using Megasquirt on his miatas which is one of the most open source stand alone tuning options. Compared to the megasquirt, cobb offers very limited control over the ECU.

    That being said, you actually benefit from the flash tune because you don't have to tune the things you dont want to tune like idle, emissions control systems, etc. And I would also not transfer the same tuning knowledge from stand alone to flash tuning, because you are locked into the manufacturers tuning solution, which is usually based on a target based closed loop system (a lot easier to tune than you think).

    IF this isn't your main project, just get an oem replacement turbo and call it a day.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Rustyms3

    Rustyms3 Greenie N00B Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2020
    Posts:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    United states
    Ratings:
    +0 / -0
    Well I believe i found the problem. I apologize for not writing back. I've been swamped with work and putting this contraption back together. The boost controller thats mounted on the turbo is not hooked to vaccum. That would explain the over boosting conditions right? I'm guessing (correct me if I'm wrong) that the bypass valve on the ic isn't big enough to regulate boost. Thanks.

    Well whats fishy to me is that the turbos have all the same mounting locations (wastegate, steel water line, oem boost controller). Can anyone confirm whether or not the oem turbo has two sets of impellers. The pictures I could find looked to be only single scroll. Like I just stated i believe this is now just a boost controller issue. I'll update yall when I get her back on her feet.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2020
    Rustyms3, via a mobile device, Nov 22, 2020
    #9
  10. The_big_dill

    The_big_dill Greenie Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2020
    Posts:
    142
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Aurora, ON. Canada
    Ratings:
    +49 / -4
    If the controller is not hooked up correctly, it will not function correctly.

    Don't confuse wastegate control with bypass valves, they control different modes of operation. The BPV releases the pressure once you let off the throttle to allow the pressure to escape. The WG controls your boost tagets, whether its mechanical or electrical.
     
  11. Rustyms3

    Rustyms3 Greenie N00B Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2020
    Posts:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    United states
    Ratings:
    +0 / -0
    See this is what I needed to know. One more thing. On further research I've come to find out my knowledge on boost control is rather limited. The factory boost controller (which is a 2 port) should be plumbed how exactly? The way its plumbed right now is the hose running from the wastegate is on the connection closest to the boost controllers plug in. The hose coming from the intake pipe is going to the farthest connection. Thanks
     
    Rustyms3, via a mobile device, Nov 22, 2020
    #11
  12. Rustyms3

    Rustyms3 Greenie N00B Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2020
    Posts:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    United states
    Ratings:
    +0 / -0
    Okay I have an update as I've got the car back together and did a few pulls with the snapon scanner. It seems my fuel rail pressure is steady at 1900psi at 4500rpm to redline. Even when the car looses power at 5500 rpm. The ignition timing is right around 5 degrees in the same conditions and doesn't retard when it falls on its face. So I'm stumped. On a side note the new clutch and aluminum flywheel feels wonderful and definitely helped rev matching and 0to60 times. I couldn't figure out where the boost psi was on the scanner as it could be overboosting still. But if it overboosted it would cuase it to run lean which would lead to knock and ignition retard right? Is 5 degrees pretty normal with 56 degrees intake temps, full throttle, around 5500 rpm?
     
    Rustyms3, via a mobile device, Nov 26, 2020
    #12
  13. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Posts:
    1,358
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Earth
    Ratings:
    +1,934 / -8
    Are you logging fuel pressure orjust monitoring live? When it drops it will only do it for a cell or two and cause a stumble. You have to log as it will not be obvious just looking at the display
     
    Easter Bunny, via a mobile device, Nov 26, 2020
    #13
  14. Rustyms3

    Rustyms3 Greenie N00B Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2020
    Posts:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    United states
    Ratings:
    +0 / -0
    Sorry for the late response. I was just monitoring by watching it. It has a graph and a current value. So I belived It would show it on the graph if it was.
     
    Rustyms3, via a mobile device, Dec 11, 2020
    #14
Loading...

Share This Page

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)