ms3 second gen trans in first gen ms3?

Discussion in 'Mazdaspeed 3 Transmission/Drivetrain' started by Sand, Feb 16, 2022.

Watchers:
5 users.
  1. Sand

    Sand Silver Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2021
    Posts:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    CA
    Ratings:
    +9 / -0
    Hello! I am having occasional second gear pop outs on decel and consistent second gear grinds when the trans is cold. I already tried adjusting the shifter cable responsible for left/right movement (couldnt find info on adjusting front/back movement), so from what i hear most likely fork pads. I am considering either rebuilding my trans or buying another trans to just swap out before i sell my DD mz3 and am down to just the ms3.

    I found a guy selling a second gen trans that I'm considering, especially because of the slightly longer gears (for autocross), but does anyone know if the second gen trans will bolt up in a first gen? ie. same bellhousing bolt locations, clutch fits, axles fit, sensors all plug in the same, etc.

    thanks!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. JohnnyTightlips

    JohnnyTightlips Motorhead Greenie Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Posts:
    1,558
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Iowa
    Ratings:
    +2,458 / -3
    I am running a 2nd gen trans in my juan without any issues. If you are going through with getting a 2nd gen trans and have the knowledge I would recommend pulling it apart to check the forks and synchros. My fork was OK but the synchro and gear were both bad on 2nd. You do need a press to work on these trans as the gears are pressed in. Check my thread, first post has a transmission section.
    https://mazdaspeeds.org/index.php?threads/johnnytightlips-build-maximum-carnage.7025/ upload_2022-2-16_8-48-3.png
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Sand

    Sand Silver Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2021
    Posts:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    CA
    Ratings:
    +9 / -0
    ^^ wow this looks like a gold mine. Looks like i have some reading to do tonight lol

    the guy with the second gen trans says it has brass fork pads already in it and was rebuilt by speed solutions but im always a little sceptical... but that may be the way i go also where did you get parts? I'll be calling dealerships today but coming from hondas i was kinda expecting to find lots of aftermarket syncros and gears
     
  4. JohnnyTightlips

    JohnnyTightlips Motorhead Greenie Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Posts:
    1,558
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Iowa
    Ratings:
    +2,458 / -3
    LOL we don't get honda parts , I wish. The OEM trans is good to about 800hp though so we don't really need the parts. I bought all mine from https://www.tascaparts.com/ they are slow but cheap. You could still crack the new one open and inspect it without having to pull the stacks or gears. You will have to RTV the case back together but it is not the end of the world and they make trans RTV.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Motorhead Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Posts:
    3,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Earth
    Ratings:
    +3,655 / -19
    We don't have the same aftermarket transmission parts supply as Honda's because Mazda was smart enough to not make the transmissions out of glass

    The only guys that have trouble with them are pretty much exclusive drag cars so they only ever see full throttle launches with 800+ hp
     
    Easter Bunny, via a mobile device, Feb 16, 2022
    #5
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Sand

    Sand Silver Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2021
    Posts:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    CA
    Ratings:
    +9 / -0
    Hahaha I love Hondas but I did end up replacing a trans cuz it just decided to spin a bearing @Easter Bunny. This whole Mazda thing has been pretty great too

    Hmmm trans specific rtv? What's the difference? I've only ever torn apart transmissions on dirt bikes so far.

    Also sorry if you have this info in your build thread already @JohnnyTightlips, I haven't gone through it completely yet, but are those fork pads glue in or press in? If they're glue in what kind of glue did you use?
     
    Sand, via a mobile device, Feb 16, 2022
    #6
  7. Easter Bunny

    Easter Bunny Professional Engineer Motorhead Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Posts:
    3,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Earth
    Ratings:
    +3,655 / -19
  8. JohnnyTightlips

    JohnnyTightlips Motorhead Greenie Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Posts:
    1,558
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Iowa
    Ratings:
    +2,458 / -3
    Mine were actually glued in but I have heard of a lot of people having issues with the brass so some new OEM ones might be better. I have not had any issues with mine.
    upload_2022-2-16_13-41-50.png
     
  9. Sand

    Sand Silver Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2021
    Posts:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    CA
    Ratings:
    +9 / -0
    Oh wow! What kind of issues? Like falling out in the trans? Premature wear? Tolerances being off? Something like that
     
    Sand, via a mobile device, Feb 16, 2022
    #9
  10. JohnnyTightlips

    JohnnyTightlips Motorhead Greenie Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Posts:
    1,558
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Iowa
    Ratings:
    +2,458 / -3
    I think mostly falling off but I am not totally sure, mine have been solid but I also don't smash the crap out of the gears often.
     
  11. JohnnyTightlips

    JohnnyTightlips Motorhead Greenie Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Posts:
    1,558
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Iowa
    Ratings:
    +2,458 / -3
    I think @Matt@DM had talked about it on facebook before.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Matt@DM

    Matt@DM Approved Vendor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Posts:
    86
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Ratings:
    +341 / -1
    Yeah we've taken apart a couple transmissions with brass fork pads and they were either really worn or broke off. We just stick to new OE units with the hard plastic on the forks. They'll wear less than the brass ones. Both could break off, but you really have to try hard to do so.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  13. Sand

    Sand Silver Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2021
    Posts:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    CA
    Ratings:
    +9 / -0
    UPDATE

    TLDR: the first gen trans and second gen trans have a slightly different 1/2 fork

    Its been a little while, but I wanted to give an update for anyone doing the same thing i did.

    I bought a used, untouched second gen trans. I decided to put brass fork pads in it because, you know, masochism... I cracked open the trans, replaced the fork pads (which looked to be in pretty good condition), got the car back together, and the darn thing kept popping out of second gear! It was very specific though, if i shifted 1 -> 2, during accel, it would be fine, but if i shifted 3->2 during decel, it would pop out immediately!

    I took the trans back out, tore it down, and long story short replaced a whole bunch of parts relating to second gear after showing my gears and stuff to a trans shop my dad has a relationship with (VW dune buggy guys). Put it back in, same issue.

    The third time i pulled this stupid trans apart, I found out that the fork/pad combo seemed a little thin and had some play where it sat in the slider. After taking a bunch of measurements between my first gen and second gen fork and talking to the guy that machines these pads, we found out (amongst other issues) the fork itself is actually thinner on the second gen trans and has thicker pads to make up for the thickness. I verified that the first gen 1/2 fork would fit in the second gen trans and the fork pad guy (speed solutions on FB, good guy but is sometimes a little difficult to get ahold of) sent me out a first gen fork with brass pads already pressed in and ready to go.

    And this fixed the issue!

    Moral of the story i guess is if something is messed up, its probably the thing that you messed with lol

    Pics attached!
     

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 4
Loading...

Share This Page

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)