Treadstone T3 EM w/ EWG Flange

Well, no point now with my 5858 staring me down in my dining room. Maybe for the SRT4 I might be picking up later.

But I digress. The options with T3 flanges are incredible. As far as the mani goes, I'm extremely excited for a cheap topmount. It's perfectly feasible to have the mani, get it ported and ceramic coated for half the price of other Manis.

 

How are you going to get your DP done? Just from a shop near you?

 

I don't know much about the S200SXE, but my understanding is all of the insane race-tech is EFR-specific, which is the reason it spools like K04 w/ the top-end of a GTX3076r. Prolly why that S200 is ~$634 and the EFR7163 is $1,425: http://www.agpturbo.com/borg-warner-efr-7163/ One of the main things is the EFR is water-cooled, the S200 isn't. That's a potential longevity/reliability issue and one of the main reasons I like Garrett and EFR over PTE.

It's nice to have options, but I'd personally go EFR all the way. It's basically a "have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too" turbo, which is a very rare thing, indeed. My .02.

 

The reason for the price difference is because you get the IWG and also it's ball bearing whereas the other one is journal as far as I'm aware.

Not saying that the EFR isn't better, but I'd imagine the two would at least be comparable.

 

There are a few EFR folks around here you can ask. FWIH, that Gamma-TI turbine wheel makes the EFR line ridonculous. And the simplicity of a completely efficient/no boost creep integrated IWG is awesome, saving a lot of parts, time, money, things that can go wrong. Heck, you don't even need a BPV either, if you decide to use the integrated one o.0

But like I said before, turbos that can make that much power aren't supposed to spool that quick/have that transient response. It's being touted as a physics-bending turbo by some gearheads, etc. I'm inclined to put a lot of stock in what they're saying. It would be nice to back/to/back compare the two.

Still, EFR for me, though

 

I don't blame you. I'd prefer the EFR line as well, was just saying that there's no T3 option for it so it makes the moot for this thread in particular at least.

 

How hard would it be to either change the EM or modify the hotside? Chop/weld. I think it'd actually be very simple to adapt, and inexpensive too. I'd work on the EM, since it costs so much less, in case you botch it, and need to re-try. Heck, I'd buy a T25 flange, have this EM's flange cut-off, and the T25 welded on in a heartbeat, just to give it a shot. I don't see why it wouldn't work...

$25 on prime and a few bucks to chop/weld:

 

The EM and hotside are both cast which is generally a mess to weld with which is why I wasn't really considering it. It's not very desirable but I guess with that cheap of a manifold it could be worth a shot lol.

 

Maybe... Then again, there's always this, so long as it doesn't cause clearance issues:

 

There's a t25 version of the eBay mani I'm using as well. Looks exactly the same, just different flange. Thought about all of that, but it'd take me forever and a half to afford the EFR. Personally I'd almost have to bite the bullet and go v-band or t4 divided, simply because of the type of person that I am. Link: http://m.ebay.com/itm/282162588914

Back a few posts, yes, I'm having my current DP modified by a local shop. It's only really extending it and moving the 90* bend over a little.

Agreed on EFR gamma-ti wheel being bonkers. My only skepticism would be how that wheel holds up, seeing as it's a fairly new thing. Besides that, 550 capability with a 2800-3200 rpm full spool is definitely having your cake and eating it, and eating the other guys cake too.

 

It'd be nice if they could put that turbine wheel on the Airwerks turbos. You could get the basically the same performance but you wouldn't have the additional costs of ball bearing and their IWG system. I feel like you wouldn't even notice the difference between ball bearing and journal when it spools that easily anyway.

 

You just won the internet! An EM with the exact flange needed - check!
I agree on being skeptical about durability of newly released tech. Then again, EFRs are used on F1 cars, and they don't baby those things at all. I'm feeling pretty darn confident that if significant design issues were to arise, they would have already in the F1 use category. Also, IIRC, a characteristic of the Gamma-Ti wheel is that the hotter it gets, the stronger it gets. There's a cool vid from the designers at BW explaining how they could drop/shatter the wheel if they weren't careful, but when it gets hot (i.e., exactly what'll happen in the turbo on the car), it becomes much more durable proportionately with it heating up.

 

Having held the SXE300 turbine wheel and the EFR7163 turbine wheels side by side at the Performance Racing Industry Expo, there is an obvious difference between the two. Like feathers vs marbles... Also the EFR is BB vs JB of the SXE line among many other differences. The insane transient response of the EFR turbo comes almost directly from the Gammi-Ti Turbine Wheel. I would switch form the MHI CHRA in the CS turbo to an EFR equivalent size if it didn't double the price of the turbo. Although a stock fitment EFR would be pretty badass...

 

My S362sxe was spooled before 4k with a 1.25 a/r housing. For $900 it's pretty hard to beat the sxe stuff in price/performance. Not to mention the oodles of turbine housing options. Being rebuildable is also a big plus.

 

Heavily considering a T3 S366sx-e .82 AR instead of my 5858, mainly because later down the line, a housing swap is all that would be needed once I build and go twin scroll. Im so tempted to try and sell my 5858..

 

I'd be very interested to see how that BW performs on a Speed (boost threshold, spool, transient response, power/psi, etc.).

 

It's just a difficult time right now because the K04 is on it's last leg, Christmas is coming, and it would have to be a quick sell and repurchase of the feed line and turbo itself. Maybe some magic will happen but I am interested as well, seeing as it is pretty default to go PTE, BNR or Garrett.

 

Indeed. Soooooo many PTEs, BNRs, and Garretts. It'd definitely be really cool to see something new. That's a giant turbo - 94 lbs/min! o.0 That'll flow like a 6766.

 

True, I was also looking at the 64.5mm. I think that'd be a better match, equivalent to a 6466 give or take. And if people run a 6266 or 6466 on a stock block, dammit I can do a similar sized turbo on my stock block too lol

 

Ball bearing turbos are rebuild-able too dont forget.